i recently inherited a layout job, which includes paving, utilities and retention pond. the building is the only structure that was constructed from the engineering site plans.
after visiting the site, getting may boundary and elevation control, i noticed whomever laid out the building, laid it out .2 higher than the proposed ffe.
i know it is only 2 1/2 inches higher than proposed, but what would you do.
1.) hold the ffe as plan and layout the entire site with the relationship of the elevations in tact with the site plan.
or
2.) layout the site with the ffe 0.2 higher and plan elevations for everything else, which would make all the sidewalks, which are handicapped accessible, have a higher than required slope.
or
3.) use the ffe 0.2 higher, adjust the sidewalks to match the required slope, and layout the rest as plan elevations.
it is not in a SFA.
i spoke withe the site contractor and we had the same discussion. we came up with a solution together. just wanted to see what others would do.
The simplest thing to do is bench off of the building floor at design ffe and stake the site. The only issue is matching grade around the edges and having enough dirt.
> The only issue is matching grade around the edges and having enough dirt.
Looks like that retention pond is going to be a little deeper than planned.
I have a question for you: Why on God's green earth would anyone even think of altering the site grading plans because a building is 0.2' high?
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm #6096
Have a great weekend! B-)
Keep the dirt/site grading as planned. slope the sidewalk to fit the building.
James
Simplicity.
Bench off the building floor, less chance of a blunder.
Step by step
Step 1: Check, double check, double-double check that 0.2 issue. Apples and oranges? Wrong datum? Erroneous data on nearby benchmark? How did this happen?
Step 2: Get to know your client personally. See if the client knows anything about this? Be prepared to clarify why this could be significant. Clients do not like to be alarmed. Clients do not like to think that anyone working for them may do less than superior work.
Step 3: After explaining all this to the client, develop the best solution, then prove that fact to the client and get permission to do things your way. Get it in writing, as much as possible,
ADA?
Do you have Handicap access to the building? If so you may need to make sure you don't exceed ADA requirements for cross slope.
Just a thought.
If it were me, I would bring it to the owner's attention, make sure there are no handicap ramp issues, and then roll with it, staking everything else per plan. It's very possible it was staked high on purpose.
I am just curious - are you sure it was staked high or did it get built high
I have been doing construction layout for about 30 years. And the finger almost always seems to gets pointed at the surveyor. ( and is rarely their fault )
anyway my short rant over. 😀
Hi,
I too only do construction surveying,my specialty,many billion dollar jobs and small gas stations etc. I agree to do most of what the others suggested.
Supply the asbuilt infomation you have, after you have checked levelling figures, relevant benchmarks etc. etc.
Give this infomation to your relevant supervisor, and I mean the correct person to whom you report to in the company you are contracting to.
They should then pass this infomation on to the designers, architect or whoever is responsible for design.
They will either make a design change based on your provided data, or ask you for further infomation before making a decision. The building is as is, they generally work back from there, as one person said,also considering disabled laws etc.
Generally the civil works have scope to alter things easily, especially is you have a big area to work with. BUT i have seen small errors like this make it hard because of constrained areas etc.
I do not make any changes myself, as it is not my job, or scope to do so, I wait until I get site instructions with the correct solution, this is usually in the form of a revised drawing with the plan reflecting the consequences of the infomation I provided and should contain ammended levels that relate to the as built slab level.
Its not really a difficult position to be in, just get directions from those whose job it is to design and or build the works.
I have seen surveyors alter things on site unauthorised, and then something they did not know about on another plan crops up and goes against them.
The designers will have all the plans, many not issued to a surveyor, but well meant intentions can have ramifications further down the track.
Cheers
David
I think you nailed it!
Why Worry About 0.2' ? Ka-ching $$$
ADA requirements extend to the limit of the property. Once you raise everything from the door to the farthest handicap parking space, there is not much left. Of course if you think you are qualified change the grades, them figure out who pays to tear out and replace new curb and sidewalk.
My wife's church moved into a new facility. Inspector revealed one entrance did not meet the ADA maximum allowable grade. He wanted it torn out and replaced. I took a look at it and suggested grinding 1' of concrete at the grade break line. Contractor did it per the design, design engineer argued his design was right. It loooks a bit odd if you tend to look down but it is not the main entrance. Easy fix.
However at the main entrance the sidewalk merged into the curb under a canopied people loading area. It was wrong, contractors fault, and he redid it at considerable expense. The canopy was already in place. I was not a party to who actually paid.
Paul in PA
Mr. Shepp, Do You Enter Competitions With That Pony Cart?
I am thinking of all the cart and carriage competitions I have seen at the PA Farm Show.
Paul in PA
Use the building FF as the BM. You don't want to mess with those handicap accessible ramps. Which brings me to my next question....if there is a maximum slope for ADA requirements, why do engineers feel the need to design to that exact slope? They want every elevation on site to be laid out with 0.005' precision! Are you building a watch? Design it at 4% so that when something like this inevitably happens it won't excede 5%
> ..if there is a maximum slope for ADA requirements, why do engineers feel the need to design to that exact slope? They want every elevation on site to be laid out with 0.005' precision! Are you building a watch? Design it at 4% so that when something like this inevitably happens it won't excede 5%
I bet you that it has more to do with dollar bills than wheelchair spills 😀
Mr. Shepp, Do You Enter Competitions With That Pony Cart?
No, I am strictly a pleasure driver, but my wife does. Though, not yet in PA
one more thing to consider
even if you were asked by the contractor to fix it all, i would still submit a plan with your proposed ammendments for official approval from those above, before you commence any work.
its a good feeling to solve a problem, and we should be capable of doing so, to a certain degree, but this onus is on the designers, and our job to help implement his intentions mostly by doing the stakings, checking etc.
Many times i have seen easy solutions in my head, and the architect does something completely different, so just do what they want, saves stress and worry.
have fun
david
PA Farm Show Competitions Are Open To Out Of Staters
First full week of January and well worth the trip, even if just to watch. It covers 8 days and if this is your first trip, give it three days to do it justice, events and food.
Great place to take your grandchildren out of school for. Pay for parking, admission is free to exhibits and competitions (rodeo excluded).
Paul in PA
the first step is check your work and be absolutely sure that you are correct. document everything. the second step is to contact the engineering firm that designed the plans and ask for new design based on the new building height. dont fix this problem yourself, dont get the contractor to tell you how to fix it...otherwise you are on the hook for it.
