Javad Question

It has a lot of analysis tools for working in canopy. You can set it up so it will never get a solution, or so it will always (almost) get a solution, or somewhere in between. VRS and RTN networks work well and easy. It is reliable, great support, great batteries, interfaces well, good COGO. Ease of use depends on what you mean. It is an advanced and complicated piece of equipment. Many things are automated but you have to set them up and play with differing configurations until you get it where you want it for differing situations. But the support guys are very helpful with that part of it.

For instance, I have a woods and canopy setup that one of the guys helped me set up. It records all GNSS data during each session along with screen shots so I can later bring this up as documentation if questioned. But the resulting point is collected in both base rtk, and processed against cors. So two solutions to compare and either choose one or if they don't agree very well it's a clue you might not have a good position, and a setup that does this repeatedly on the same point in order to average the cluster later after submitting to DPOS. Which BTW, I've found DPOS to be more reliable than OPUS, particularly with elevation data.

I'm hoping under canopy in the north woods will improve once Galileo comes fully operational. Most firmware updates are free, so I think when it's useable all users will get it without further cost.

I'm less than 3 hours from you, Frank. Let's get together. You can see it for yourself and decide. It does get bad fixes, but we have processes in place that trap, isolate and discard them. Every conscientious surveyor I know who works with RTK in the woods will collect a point, reset the engines (dump the antenna) and shoot it again, then compare the two to make sure there is agreement. The really serious guys will do this a couple of times. We do this automatically during point collection, resetting engines and comparing fixes. It's all automatic, but the user sees it all in front of him.

Ease of use is dependent on the user to some degree. The software isn't like anything else, so you start from scratch. For some who are devoted users of a particular data collection software the learning curve is more punishing ("I just want it to work like Survey Pro" etc). The users willing to immerse themselves into the software and embrace it seem to do very well with the transition. In my opinion, the software is made for serious operators. A sharp surveyor with a Triumph-LS can be a force to be reckoned with. It's a professional tool for a professional user.

The canopy question is important, but there are so many variables it is difficult to quantify. Under pine trees, it's tough, not impossible, but tough. Under deciduous canopy it's amazing. The new post processing software built in to the receiver has allowed me to get a position on points when RTK simply couldn't get it, and it can be done in the field using DPOS.

Regarding support, I'm biased. I think it's the best there is! There are five of us who work in private practice and provide technical support, so when a user calls, they talk to someone who knows the system and surveying. I took two support calls yesterday under a shade tree 🙂

Feel free to shoot me an email or give me a call.

903-985-0102
shawnbillings at cablelynx dot com

Frank, I'm a Javad fan.

Nate

Shawn Billings, post: 381103, member: 6521 wrote: The software isn't like anything else, so you start from scratch.

That is the biggest barrier to entry, I believe.

Shawn Billings, post: 381103, member: 6521 wrote: The software isn't like anything else

I Carlson CE or any others driving the hardware to overcome this? Jp

Jp7191, post: 381123, member: 1617 wrote: I Carlson CE or any others driving the hardware to overcome this? Jp

If you get into the "LS" (what you might call going "full Javad") you have to use their software, and it is only for that machine, no interface with a total station (unless they have fixed that).

But their Triumph receivers and such can be driven with Carlson SurvCE.

dmyhill, post: 381111, member: 1137 wrote: That is the biggest barrier to entry, I believe.

Could be. I don't want to go back though. There is a reason that the software is different. We're doing new things every month practically. We wouldn't be nearly so far along if we were waiting for brand X to keep adding features to the software. If we kept trying to duplicate what already exists then there would be no compelling distinction to cause you to consider us. If you want what you always had, that's fine but don't expect it to do much above what it's always done.

My biggest complaint is I didn't switch to javad 40 years ago when I started surveying!
(Just kidding)

Shawn Billings, post: 381103, member: 6521 wrote: I'm less than 3 hours from you, Frank. Let's get together. You can see it for yourself and decide. It does get bad fixes, but we have processes in place that trap, isolate and discard them. Every conscientious surveyor I know who works with RTK in the woods will collect a point, reset the engines (dump the antenna) and shoot it again, then compare the two to make sure there is agreement. The really serious guys will do this a couple of times. We do this automatically during point collection, resetting engines and comparing fixes. It's all automatic, but the user sees it all in front of him.

Ease of use is dependent on the user to some degree. The software isn't like anything else, so you start from scratch. For some who are devoted users of a particular data collection software the learning curve is more punishing ("I just want it to work like Survey Pro" etc). The users willing to immerse themselves into the software and embrace it seem to do very well with the transition. In my opinion, the software is made for serious operators. A sharp surveyor with a Triumph-LS can be a force to be reckoned with. It's a professional tool for a professional user.

The canopy question is important, but there are so many variables it is difficult to quantify. Under pine trees, it's tough, not impossible, but tough. Under deciduous canopy it's amazing. The new post processing software built in to the receiver has allowed me to get a position on points when RTK simply couldn't get it, and it can be done in the field using DPOS.

Regarding support, I'm biased. I think it's the best there is! There are five of us who work in private practice and provide technical support, so when a user calls, they talk to someone who knows the system and surveying. I took two support calls yesterday under a shade tree 🙂

Feel free to shoot me an email or give me a call.

903-985-0102
shawnbillings at cablelynx dot com

Shawn, where are you located. I can hop in my plane and get there in an hour or less if you aren't to far from small airport. Serious about getting a Javad if they will work for me.

(Just kidding guys before you jump me lol)

I like Lee's joke... And agree with it to some degree.
So, the next question that comes along is:
Ok, there is a learning curve. Do I GAIN enough, to be worth it?
For some, the answer is yes. For those in the wide open plains, maybe not.
Once you head into the swamps, woods, and stuff. You see the GAIN.
You have to decide.

Jp7191, post: 381123, member: 1617 wrote: I Carlson CE or any others driving the hardware to overcome this? Jp

Pairing a Carlson Surveyor2 using Surv CE with a pair of Triumph-1Ms is VERY productive. On UHF, or Network RTK.

The only reason I went with the T-1M Vs the LS is I wanted seamless integration with my robot & other TS. The surveyor 2 accomplished that. I do give up some of the way cool LS features though, but I have the same RTK board under the hood, and 5Hz (if I get around to updating firmware)

Shawn Billings, post: 381136, member: 6521 wrote: Could be. I don't want to go back though. There is a reason that the software is different. We're doing new things every month practically. We wouldn't be nearly so far along if we were waiting for brand X to keep adding features to the software. If we kept trying to duplicate what already exists then there would be no compelling distinction to cause you to consider us. If you want what you always had, that's fine but don't expect it to do much above what it's always done.

I understand that. But if you have more than one person working at your shop, it helps if it can all talk and play well together. If I was just heading out to do GPS surveying, the LS would certainly be considered. It is compact, and has rave reviews from pretty much everyone that uses it.

And, with the state of how software is produced, we are ALL beta testers for Microsoft, Carlson, ACAD, etc. It isn't just your imagination, the philosophy changed many moons ago, and putting out a finished software title was essentially deemed the equivalent of a unicorn...so stuff gets shipped. It sounds like Javad is responsive to feedback, which is an advantage, I am sure.

toivo1037, post: 381152, member: 973 wrote: Pairing a Carlson Surveyor2 using Surv CE with a pair of Triumph-1Ms is VERY productive. On UHF, or Network RTK.

The only reason I went with the T-1M Vs the LS is I wanted seamless integration with my robot & other TS. The surveyor 2 accomplished that. I do give up some of the way cool LS features though, but I have the same RTK board under the hood, and 5Hz (if I get around to updating firmware)

Caution, thread hijack...

How are you liking the Surveyor2? Our crews DO NOT like the touch screen, and prefer the older Surveyor + for that reason. (The new DC sits on the shelf, and the backup goes to the field...)

Nate The Surveyor, post: 381143, member: 291 wrote: My biggest complaint is I didn't switch to javad 40 years ago when I started surveying!
(Just kidding)

After the EDM and TS came out I told the crews that they would be feet on ground for X hours and to tie in every monument they could find in that amount of time. They would try and outdo themselves and set a new high for the number of monuments located in a day.

Had a tool like this been available in 1970, by now I'd have many times fold more monuments located and referenced if not the whole rural area included in a database.

In final thesis titled "Measuring Land" which was mostly about the need to simplify and downscale the electronics and weight of EDM available in 1973, I did make a statement of "one day a surveyor will be able to set on a monument and push a button and have the location in a few moments". Never thought I would actually live to see it being done.

:clink:

dmyhill, post: 381155, member: 1137 wrote: Caution, thread hijack...

How are you liking the Surveyor2? Our crews DO NOT like the touch screen, and prefer the older Surveyor + for that reason. (The new DC sits on the shelf, and the backup goes to the field...)

Don't have a surveyor+, came from a old ranger, and a fc2500. I really like the S2. No problems with touchscreen on my model. Sometimes the S2 has to finish up its bluetooth thing when you turn it on, looking for whatever you were last connected to. I find it is better to exit out to the menu before turning it off.

I agree with toivo1037, Pairing a Carlson Surveyor2 using Surv CE with a pair of Triumph-1Ms is VERY productive. I have my SurvCE hooked to a Allegro 2 and the whole works very well.

The Javad Triumph LS can do some amazing things. It's complicated but very robust. I wouldn't want to be without it.

I could not imagine not being able to unplug my data collector from my RTK and immediately plugging into my robot to continue staking. I would say technology is moving the wrong way if it is not possible. My 2 cents, Jp