iPhone 13 LiDAR for mh dips

I saw a vid with a chappie doing kerb and guttering with it, tied into survey control marks, and it looked pretty good. I expect Apple will be sending me this product FOC to review, and I'm going to do this with it.

I would be interested to see if it works in the dark??ÿ

@stlsurveyor Just tried scanning a room in my house in the dark. It was acting really weird, did capture some geometry, but I would say it's not usable.?ÿ

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Kind of disappointed. That tells me it may not be using an actual laser but a shutter system similar to some other products on the market.

@kayakjb5 tis a bit disappointing to hear that. It seems like there is not much info on how the LiDAR actually works in the phone. All sources seem to indicate it is a legit LiDAR sensor so I would think that should still operate without any light?

Maybe we will have to rig up an additional light source when we stick it down a mh tomorrow. Or just turn the light on the phone? I will update tomorrow with our results.?ÿ

@ryancj31?ÿ Yeah there is no "real" lidar happening with the iPhone. More than likely this is a washed down version of P4D or similar. Digital photogrammetry at you fingertips. But it is a cool feature that will undoubtedly improve.

@stlsurveyor Iƒ??m pretty sure it is a true LiDAR sensor. I believe other iPhones do use the photogrammetry method to make measurements which would require some minimal level of lighting. Look for ƒ??measureƒ? app. It is surprising accurate with the stuff I measured. Again quite sparse with info on how it actually works - Iƒ??m a bit puzzled, especially since I only have a single camera lens. I could see how this would be easily done with dual or triple lenses.

from some tech website:
ƒ??But, similar to the iPhone 12 lineup, the lidar scanner is still only available on the Pro and Pro Max. This is the second generation of iPhones to only feature a lidar scanner on its higher-end models.

The scanner, which made its debut in the 2020 iPad Pro, can be seen on both the iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The scanner is used to help with autofocus and taking pictures in low lighting. (You can also use lidar to measure your friends' heights at parties, which is kind of cool.)ƒ?

note: if you donƒ??t have the iPhone 12max or 13max you can still use the ƒ??measureƒ? app to measure your friends height at parties via the photogrammetry method.?ÿ

hereƒ??s another tech site:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/the-technology-behind-the-iphone-lidar-may-be-coming-soon-to-cars/

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@ryancj31 If it was a true liDAR sensor then visible light would have no affect on its capabilities besides true color. They do have some great VooDoo happening though and I am sure the the secrets are closely held.?ÿ It appears to be a form of VCSELS LiDAR similar to the Ouster sensors, which have no "spinning" emitters.?ÿ

I love the part at 4 minutes in where he has to stand on a bucket to see the bubble.?ÿ Reminds me of an former colleague that, on occasions, would have to stand on the T2000 box to see through the instrument.

Posted by: @ryancj31

Iƒ??ve seen a few posts on here regarding different methods for acquiring mh dips. Laser measurers, rod angle readers, Chris-nik pizza cutter thing, etc. Iƒ??ve tried them all over the years and there is pros and cons, abilities and limitations to them all.

Has anyone used the LiDAR built into the new iPhones? Seems pretty promising to me. I mentioned it to my boss and showed him the YouTube video linked below. He is apparently going to buy one tonight. Hereƒ??s your chance to talk him out of it.

Yep. Been using it for a bit as an r&d project. Works well so long as you learn and respect the basic limitations of the iPhoneƒ??s LiDAR.?ÿ

@john-putnam?ÿ

He could have used his phone to see the bubble.

@stlsurveyor Definitely real LiDAR. The reason the mapping fails in the dark is most apps use the camera to help with the SLAM, similar to the RTC360. No camera, no visual SLAM.

@stlsurveyor?ÿ

I am making a guess after looking at the videos:

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The lidar measures distances, but it is highly unlikely that the internal gyro would be accurate enough to provide good angle orientation, and the internal GNSS is certainly not good enough to create a useable cloud from a moving phone. (That said hand held scanners do exist and work well for short distances.)?ÿ

My guess: The internal camera provides additional orientation information for processing by utilizing SfM and the video that is recorded along with the scan data. It seems likely that all sorts of clues are used by the algorithm (gyro,GNSS,SfM) in order to obtain a useful scan.

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In essence, this is still a party trick, but a cool one. If we can use the party trick, that would be outstanding.?ÿ

@martin_au?ÿ

So, I wasn't completely wrong!

@dmyhill @martin_au I would like to see the Bad Elf (or Similar) external GNSS receiver attached and see if the accuracies improve, introduce a tripod? Lots of potential here...

@stlsurveyor?ÿ

Survey grade RTK would not help the orientation. What would be useful: being able to designate control points in the rough cloud before processing.

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Basically, targets that it can read and that coordinates can be assigned to.

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But, RTK would make absolute positioning possible.

@stlsurveyor?ÿ

When I first watched the video of this guy testing this, my first thought was that it needs a tripod and some way of steadily turning it.?ÿ

@john-putnam?ÿ

I stand on my Leica robot case all the time when I need to set up high to see over obstacles, then I need a reflectorless shot on a building corner.?ÿ

Has anybody tested the 13 yet for doing manhole dips? Just curious cause then I could get the company on board with a new phone purchase for me instead of coming out of my pocket.

Anyone tried this yet? Just ordered a iPhone 13 pro today as my old iPhone 7 is starting to show its age. I donƒ??t have any fancy software to render a point cloud in but I do have Civil 3D 2022. Thought that you had to have autodesk recap for point clouds?ÿ