David Kendall, post: 436625, member: 12659 wrote: Please elaborate.
I had a crewmember tell me once that he liked to set the instrument up on the monument to tie all of the BTs but I never understood that and I rarely did it.
I was senior to him so I made the calls when we were in the field and I don't recall asking him why he would do that but I have wondered about it a few times
It always seemed like an extraneous setup to me, especially considering what you just said about "triviality of the small errors" in relation to the magnitude of chaining and directional error on the old monuments
The advantage of tieing BTs from a position at or very near the corner is that a number of things are easily measured. Directions to marks can be measured essentially exactly. Asymmetries are readily seen by taking directions to the left and right edges of the tree at the level of the mark. Any unusual distance measurements can be more readily identified when one of the questions is whether the distances were measured to the center of the tree or to the face of the tree.
In Texas, where directions are generally considered more reliable than distances (in the absence of evidence to the contrary), my interest would be in getting the most accurate directions to the marks easily possible. Where the BTs are distant enough from the corner, the directions to them can be an important demonstration of any index error that may be present in the bearings as reported by the original survey.
Kent McMillan, post: 436393, member: 3 wrote: I guess in PLSSia the fundamentals of surveying are so little understood that these strike you as meaningful points of inquiry?
Are you licensed is a PLLSia State? Or are you a "book read" PLSSia surveyor that knows absolutely nothing about surveying in the Rectangular System but think you do? 😉
FL/GA PLS., post: 436632, member: 379 wrote: Are you licensed is a PLLSia State? Or are you a "book read" PLSSia surveyor that knows absolutely nothing about surveying in the Rectangular System but think you do? 😉
To effectively understand the nature of arguing with someone convinced they are infallible one must be able to see what they are seeing.
I can have exacting evidence that it is high noon, but someone may argue that is midnight. Closer review of conditions might indicate where their head is shoved is indeed very dark....;)
FL/GA PLS., post: 436632, member: 379 wrote: Are you licensed is a PLLSia State? Or are you a "book read" PLSSia surveyor that knows absolutely nothing about surveying in the Rectangular System but think you do? 😉
Most of us keep our silly ignorance to ourselves when it comes to pertinent subjects to allow those with experience and knowledge to speak. Kent just likes to soapbox about surveying in Texas because that's all he knows. When a post starts approaching around 100 replies (with Kent's caustic admonishments to all that replied making up around 75% of those replies) the interest starts to decline. In an effort to "troll up" some more argumentative interaction he always brings up "PLSSia"....very predictably.
Kent actually knows very little about the rectangular survey system and it shows. But I come here more for the entertainment than anything else. And I'm fond of Kent and his "mo' better than thou" attitude toward surveyors. I hope it doesn't hurt his feelings; but I enjoy laughing AT him more than laughing WITH him.....;)
50 of 123. Geez Louise.
FL/GA PLS., post: 436632, member: 379 wrote: Are you licensed is a PLLSia State? Or are you a "book read" PLSSia surveyor that knows absolutely nothing about surveying in the Rectangular System but think you do?
What does being licensed in PLSSia have to do with gathering that the fundamentals of surveying as understood in Texas are outside the comprehension of those practicing what passes for surveying elsewhere? All a person has to do is read the posts from the hinterlands and the conclusion is inescapable.
For example, if you'd like to post an example of a metes and bounds description that is typical of what is produced in Florida to refute the proposition, please proceed.
paden cash, post: 436637, member: 20 wrote: Kent actually knows very little about the rectangular survey system and it shows. But I come here more for the entertainment than anything else. And I'm fond of Kent and his "mo' better than thou" attitude toward surveyors.
I think that the real point is to wonder why surveying has degenerated as much as it apparently has in places that are in, yes, PLSSia. I assume that is a proposition that most practitioners would agree with since they are the ones who post about problems such as whether to "accept" original monuments, what constitutes an original monument, how to resolve situations with mulitiple monuments all supposedly marking the same corner, and, of course, references to corner records that describe PK Nails in county roads marking section corners with only boilerplate BS as the rationale for the replacement.
When I read ignorant remarks about fundamentals posted by someone from PLSSia, it occurs to me that it's probably a product of the surveying environment there, given the nature of the other posts one commonly sees.
paden cash, post: 436637, member: 20 wrote: Most of us keep our silly ignorance to ourselves when it comes to pertinent subjects to allow those with experience and knowledge to speak.
I assume that we needn't inventory all of the ignorant questions and remarks that posters (including an Okie you know well) have been unable to keep to themselves in this thread?
paden cash, post: 436637, member: 20 wrote: Most of us keep our silly ignorance to ourselves when it comes to pertinent subjects to allow those with experience and knowledge to speak
errare humanum est, sed perseverare diabolicum
53 of 124 When will the foolishness cease?
Holy Cow, post: 436657, member: 50 wrote: 53 of 124 When will the foolishness cease?
The typical format of a discussion about a technical matter involves some back and forth. If you examine the form of this discussion, you'll find that a whole list of issues have been raised and discussed. Most of the commentary from PLSSia has been strikingly odd from a Texas perspective in a way that does tend to support a more generalized impression of surveying there.
Kent McMillan, post: 436665, member: 3 wrote: The typical format of a discussion about a technical matter involves some back and forth. If you examine the form of this discussion, you'll find that a whole list of issues have been raised and discussed. Most of the commentary from PLSSia has been strikingly odd from a Texas perspective in a way that does tend to support a more generalized impression of surveying there.
There is a difference between discussion and debating just for the sake of debating.
This sort of cr*p you constantly post is just that, cr*p: "All a person has to do is read the posts from the hinterlands and the conclusion is inescapable." I guess it makes you feel better about yourself to slam people with zero justification.
The more I learn, the more I know that there are huge cultural differences in the half dozen or more "regions" in America.
Kent McMillan, post: 436652, member: 3 wrote: When I read ignorant remarks about fundamentals posted by someone from (insert any location outside of practice here)
"Ignorant"? Sir, we are all lacking in knowledge. Don't be arrogant and dismissive to others that are not familiar with your local culture.
You have a thing or two to learn, and that could be very good for Texas.
David Kendall, post: 436625, member: 12659 wrote: If there are typical variations of 3-5 feet in a 1/4 mile then what difference does a foot or two make when backing in a monument from BTs??)
David- you've got to immerse yourself in this stuff, in this case the foot is VERY important. A rebar was set, then further investigation occurred, then a second rebar was set 1 foot away to mark the same corner. But now starting to wonder about this second corner because it misses the visual center of scatter. Fortunately Kent has set two rebars there which will both be mentioned in his report so future surveyors can make their own determination. Approx center of scatter or approx position by witnesses.
To answer your question about tieing BT from the actual corner, it makes absolutely no difference. Most important is that you have a tie to the scar and a position on the center of tree. Significant or not, and it can be in certain cases where trees actually grow and the land has actual value, using these two positions to calculate from would be the best practice to restablish a position that is now buried in the tree. It is surprising that Kent doesn't know this.
Kent McMillan, post: 436665, member: 3 wrote: Most of the commentary from PLSSia has been strikingly odd from a Texas perspective
I don't care how you survey in Texas, I have no knowledge of it. That is specifically the reason I read posts about Texas. However since I am ignorant concerning Texas surveying I refrain from making disparaging remarks about something I am uneducated in.
Contrary to your uneducated remarks regarding the PLS. 😎
Putting aside the civility (or lack thereof) of the discussion, I'd posit that you guys are arguing about something that, in this situation, just doesn't matter.
Whether a surveyor marks the top of the leaning axle or a spot .2' away from it affects nothing.
If this were 5th avenue and 58th street, in Manhattan, a .2' boundary issue could result in hundreds, if not thousands of square feet of real estate, which might be valued at thousands of dollars/sf. If one found such a leaning monument there, it would probably be worth lawyering up for.
That's simply not the case here. If someone were to build a 50 story building somewhere near Kent's rock pile in the desert, they're certainly not going to put it near that pile within .2'. Heck, are there even setbacks for such construction?
It's mostly a fascinating and enjoyable thread to read though. If nothing else it provides unique insight into a myriad of surveyors' brains.
rfc, post: 436698, member: 8882 wrote: It's mostly a fascinating and enjoyable thread to read though. If nothing else it provides unique insight into a myriad of surveyors' brains
Hell, that's the best part of this site. Usually when Mr McMillan posts something, the whole thread explodes. Almost like when TDD posted. 😉
I have learned alot from this thread and want to thank you all. Hope to be in west texas on the next job, will take lots of pictures and be very specific in my observations.
Holy Cow, post: 436657, member: 50 wrote: 53 of 124 When will the foolishness cease?
It's a discussion forum.
If posters want to dialog leave it be
Your repeated snide posts don't have any proper place in the discussion.
You can ignore the post or poster to alleviate your concerns
Or you can just keep being a wanker.
Et tu.