How do you survey a lot when you cant read the dimensions on the recorded plat? especially lots with a radius.
EXHAUST ALL possibilities of getting a copy you can read. Have you seen the full=size recorded version in the courthouse? is it bad?
use your scale. Use deeds , other surveys of record. check occupation. look at other plats by the same individual from the same time period to try to develop some recognition. [SARCASM] If all else fails get some aluminum caps, stamp them RPLS KNM 4341 and put them on rebar at semi -reasonable locations. Come back a week later and tie them and drive on....[/SARCASM]
On occasion the title companies in our area have a better copy in their abstract plant. There is a local county here that is notorious for reducing probably close to 30% of their subdivision to where you can't even read them.
How old is it and where is it?
Worse is having a plat with a missing section. Really. About two inches missing across the middle. Great info on the two remnants but it doesn't mean much without the missing section.
RPLS#, post: 422099, member: 12280 wrote: How do you survey a lot when you cant read the dimensions on the recorded plat? especially lots with a radius.
The answer. of course, is that if you can't actually read the plat sufficiently well to determine the shape and location of the property, and you can't find a legible copy of the plat, then the answer to give your client is that you can't determine the boundaries of the property as described in their deed that only describes the property by reference to that plat.
One of the legitimate functions of land surveying is to throw up a red flag when the record is sufficiently indefinite that three surveyors might reasonably be expected to generate three different opinions as to the location of a boundary. Illegible plats of record would most likely qualify if the actual values can't be deduced with reasonable certainty.
Kent McMillan, post: 422109, member: 3 wrote: The answer. of course, is that if you can't actually read the plat sufficiently well to determine the shape and location of the property, and you can't find a legible copy of the plat, then the answer to give your client is that you can't determine the boundaries of the property as described in their deed that only describes the property by reference to that plat.
One of the legitimate functions of land surveying is to throw up a red flag when the record is sufficiently indefinite that three surveyors might reasonably be expected to generate three different opinions as to the location of a boundary. Illegible plats of record would most likely qualify if the actual values can't be deduced with reasonable certainty.
[SARCASM]welllllll, the 4341 caps are always an option......[/SARCASM]
Rankin_File, post: 422111, member: 101 wrote: [SARCASM]welllllll, the 4341 caps are always an option......[/SARCASM]
Actually, this is a serious topic. I know of one case where a surveyor took on a major liability by virtue of trying to guess his way through an insufficient record and it probably won't end well for all concerned when the dust settles.
In Texas, a land surveyor is responsible for an investigation of adequate thoroughness and completeness to support a boundary determination and if no such results are in hand, then the survey cannot ethically proceed.
What the actual rule says is:
"(B) A land surveyor assuming the responsibility of performing a land survey also assumes the responsibility for such research of adequate thoroughness to support the determination of the location of the boundaries of the land being surveyed. The land surveyor may rely on record data related to the determination of boundaries furnished for the registrants' use by a qualified provider, provided the registrant reasonably believes such data to be sufficient and notes, references, or credits the documentation by which it is furnished."
Illegible data doesn't pass the laugh test for reasonable belief as to sufficiency, obviously.
RPLS#, post: 422099, member: 12280 wrote: How do you survey a lot when you cant read the dimensions on the recorded plat? especially lots with a radius.
Post a link to the plat somehow. What generally happens is someone figures it out within the day, and a boundary construction argument breaks out soon after.
flyin solo, post: 422107, member: 8089 wrote: How old is it and where is it?
Harris County Texas, 1958
R.J. Schneider, post: 422115, member: 409 wrote: Post a link to the plat somehow. What generally happens is someone figures it out within the day, and a boundary construction argument breaks out soon after.
If i cant figure it out I'll post it up. The boundary construction argument would be fun though.
I will go ahead and place an order for the "RPLS 4341" aluminum caps though, just in case I need them.:p
RPLS#, post: 422121, member: 12280 wrote: I will go ahead and place an order for the "RPLS 4341" aluminum caps though, just in case I need them.
As long as you know that would be grounds for revoking your license, please proceed. My guess is that there are already twice as many surveyors in Houston as are really necessary to meet demand for services - just not at half the price. 😀
RPLS#, post: 422121, member: 12280 wrote: If i cant figure it out I'll post it up. The boundary construction argument would be fun though.
I will go ahead and place an order for the "RPLS 4341" aluminum caps though, just in case I need them.:p
[SARCASM]Be sure and tell them you want the crabby-old-coot discount- that way, they'll know it's an authentic/authorized order! [/SARCASM];)
TXSurveyor, post: 422105, member: 6719 wrote: On occasion the title companies in our area have a better copy in their abstract plant. There is a local county here that is notorious for reducing probably close to 30% of their subdivision to where you can't even read them.
I'm lucky around here to be able to get to look at the full size original in any courthouse. It's nice when the online stuff is scanned in focus and at good enough resolution to be useful. One county I work in frequently has the images poorly scanned / compressed and I end up getting full sized paper copies from them- and they usually are happy to do it; although I suspect they don't get the request very often.
Well, when one reads licensees seriously asking what they should do when the information they have been provided isn't sufficient to make a survey of some lot in Houston, the rest pretty much naturally follows since Houston is already the epicenter of the crappiest surveying I've seen in Texas.
What is the name of the plat? Are you still talking about the one off Hogan?
Most clerks offices around here have 2 copies of the recorded plats prior to going to scanning to digital records. One would be in the books where everyone can see and touch them and another set in a vault you need special permission to go into. But we also have minimum standards for recordation in Virginia to keep plats legible. No text on any plat can be less than 0.1" tall. Is the surveyor that made the plat still around or can you trace who may have gotten their records if they are no longer around?
Rankin_File, post: 422103, member: 101 wrote: EXHAUST ALL possibilities of getting a copy you can read. Have you seen the full=size recorded version in the courthouse? is it bad?
In Alabama the full sized originals of recorded plats are not kept anywhere. They are returned to the owner or surveyor.
Thanks for the suggestions. The city apparently has its own cache of survey records that are of better quality than the county clerk's. I was able to find a better copy there. I wish the county had kept the paper originals, I was told by a county employee that they keep no paper survey records, they were all scanned and then destroyed.
RPLS#, post: 422099, member: 12280 wrote: How do you survey a lot when you cant read the dimensions on the recorded plat? especially lots with a radius.
I generally call the company who prepared it and ask for a copy I can read and play it off on the courthouse about why it's illegible.