The client kept telling me where she wants/has always thought was the property line. Thing is... I do not see any actual occupation, just her word that is where they moved to (lawn with no fence on both sides of the line).
So, I am not getting any monuments to match, and I tell her I need to do more research, and searching. She remembers that there were monuments set (irons) when they purchased the property.
Cool, she points to the area, and she enough, it matched the fence line of the adjoining plat. I search around some more, and find what is probably her corner, 5 feet into what she considers her property.
Thing is, she maintains that she knows where the property line is, all age wants me to do is agree.
I maintain that if you don't know where your property is, I can help, if you already know, call a lawyer first. I am so limited in the advice I feel I can give, without offering legal advice, that it frustrates me.
rant away... take a deep breath, a shot of your favorite mood changer and think of the best advice to give the old bird:
you recollect where your line is. my agreement with this location matters little if the neighbors do not agree. from there, it could get ugly. in the meantime, i can determine and show a number of lines on the plan: where the math falls, where the irons / monuments fall, where you recollect. i can provide a report on the merits of each of these lines as the true line that you can review with your attorney. Counsel may best provide you with the best representation of the quality of the title to the various boundaries i depict.
simple: good title to monumented / math line, not so good title to recollected line. let the attorney inform her of the fees of an AP claim on what sounds like an insignificant amount of property with a very difficult case.
I'm confused, if she already knows where the line why did she hire you?
She is free to represent herself in pro per in the action once she slanders her neighbor's title LOL. There is no need to drag a surveyor into it.
I did a survey where the neighbor told her surveyor where she wanted the line. My client easily won the ensuing lawsuit.
It could be worse; the parcel could be in Greece.
"Land disputes are less acute in urban centers, where sidewalks, streets and building walls help clarify boundaries. But in the countryside, deeds reflect another era. Boundaries can be the “three olive trees near the well” or the spot “where you can hear a donkey on the path.”
“You had guys who had never been to school — who had 100 sheep — and they would throw a rock a certain distance and say: O.K., that’s mine,” said Mr. Hamodrakas, who in addition to his own problems has handled many landownership cases for clients. “The documents might say ‘from the tree to the stream.’ It is very hard to know what they are talking about.”
Man, that sounds a lot like rural Maine! Great read, though, thank you, Jim.
> simple: good title to monumented / math line, not so good title to recollected line. let the attorney inform her of the fees of an AP claim on what sounds like an insignificant amount of property with a very difficult case.
"good title", "not so good title" ??????????? really???
Is there any doubt as to who owns the properties in question? I doubt it.
It sounds to me like there may be some question (very little according to the limited details in the OP) as to the location of the boundary however. Apples and oranges; boundary location and title.
There is no need for court or lawyers. My view of the job is that the professional surveyor provides a well reasoned opinion based upon all the relevant evidence for a particular boundary location.What are the chances that another surveyor looking at the same evidence you used, that the other surveyor will arrive at a different location? What is the chance of another surveyor finding better evidence that you did and therefore locate the line in a different position than you now have it? What does the adjoiner think of your clients claim? Is your client's recollection supported b any other evidence. It takes a preponderance of evidence to prevail in one location as opposed to another location and capable counsel and a favorable court.
There are plenty of ways you can help your client. How much is the disputed property worth? Try to provide perspective and ways to avoid the train wreck of litigation.
absolutely.
you have good title to the record/monumented location and a muddy title to the portion of property to the line by memory. there would be two forms of conveyance, one through the record and the other through possession.
it's easier to consider this like two parcels rather than one muddy line.
> absolutely.
>
> you have good title to the record/monumented location and a muddy title to the portion of property to the line by memory. there would be two forms of conveyance, one through the record and the other through possession.
>
> it's easier to consider this like two parcels rather than one muddy line.
I guess I don't understand the "two conveyances" part. What evidence of two conveyances is there? The OP did not mention two conveyances, nor two descriptions. A conveyance through possession? Please post more about this interesting topic, I can't seem to find much information on it.
The "title" goes to the boundary, wherever it is according to the evidence and the applicable law. That is generally our job, find the boundary.
The example shows a really weak AP claim. If this were a valid AP claim, you can still consider the property as being acquired by two means - written and unwritten. This leads to considering two lines therefore a lot and a parcel. Let the lawyer shoot down her quality of title for the strip she thinks she owns.
We have this pesky Land Court that would step a problem like this in a similar way. If John owns a lot registered with the land court adjacent to an unregistered lot owned by Tom and John adversely possesses Tom's land, the boundary does not immediately change. John acquires a separate lot from a different chain of title and these are only merged into one lot when the Land Court decrees it. Even so, the Land Court would likely decree a separate lot in a separate case rather than modify the original decree.
Apparently, MA has the oldest planning and zoning laws on the books, last reviewed in the mid 70's. We can confuse planners and assessors by cutting things up into parcels and subsequently create building lots by effective merger.
what evidence that supports an AP claim are you referring to? a mowed line? her recollection? I dont think either would support AP in most jursidictions.
I don't see it as an AP claim, weak or otherwise. I see it as a faulty memory taking issue with a boundary location indicated by competent evidence.
The landowners have title to their parcels. The boundary location was apparently unknown to them, so one of them hired a surveyor. Unfortunately, the client doesn't seem to be looking for a professional to actually find the boundary, wherever it actually is. She seems to be looking for the professional to confirm her faulty memory because she is certain that the line must be where she remembers it to be.
Per the OP, there are no clear lines of occupation, so there isn't even the start of any claim that could result in a court recognizing a transfer by unwritten means. No 2nd, unwritten conveyance in process (a claim ripened or potential), and so nothing for a court to recognize.
It is simply a matter of boundary location according to the written title. Either that or a problem of a personality that won't accept facts that contradict her memory.
[sarcasm]oh good, then there is no reason for a rant[/sarcasm]