Did 2 surveys last week, both of which involve new monuments set by surveyors I know that do not go to the field. I would think on both, if these guys personally were doing the digging around, that they would be a lot less comfortable setting their monuments where they did, but perhaps not.
On both they create encroachments involving long standing structures that clearly one should know were not built wrong, simply based on experience and intuition.
On one, there is a detached garage near the back corner built right at the time of the original survey that they are showing as a 1-foot encroachment. You just KNOW this is wrong based on the area and the fact you know everything got built around the same time off the original survey.
We spent a day tying in old fencelines, and then digging around and found an old pipe (yes - shown on the original map) 1.5 feet away from the new pipe, which they did not find. It had a weak signal and if they did not do the digging around and fence locations they either would not have dug, or they could have been a foot or more off on the digging, which is critical.
I just shake my head. There is no damn encroachment. People had already lawyered up from the prior survey, and this should not have happened.
I keep wondering how hard, large and shiny their brass ones are that they can do this type of surveying. These properties are not exactly cheap here in the Bay Area!
I could never NOT go in the field on these types of boundaries. Sure, on monumented subdivisions done recently, that is another story. Plus, these are just too damn fun to miss out on anyway.
There's a building in Mendocino with the year built painted right on it (1865) and a recent nail and tag showing it encroaching 2'. The nail & tag comes from block control cooked up piecemeal over no more than the past 50 years.
I agree, I just can't understand that. The boundary is so obvious it is literally staring you in the face, the face of a 150 year old building is pretty hard to argue with.
There is an area of old Mobile that has been in and out of court for the last 20 years, based on which version of pin cushioned two bit rebar you choose to believe.
Strap off the 180 year old granite and marble curblines, and it all falls into place, with several buildings built in the past 30 years clearly encroaching on property in continuous occupation for over 50 years that fit the curbline within hundredths.
That is a great one Dave.
Also what is interesting is that on the ROS I am working from, the garage encroachment is not shown. I would bet that the guy did not even consider measuring it at the time, and things just snowballed. I have read a couple of Board opinions on other's ROS maps, and I would bet they would not only tear up the survey on the basic resolution, but also that it does not disclose the structural encroachment.
You never stop facepalming at this stuff.
I did one a few years ago where I found this guy was amazingly, four feet off on a lot that was only about 60-70-feet wide. It was obvious from measuring to any relatively old monuments, and also every other old occupation line that dates to the original survey - and also for the fact that his own pipes behind the lot and over a lot, would miss by the same amount. (He came from some monument on the other side of the street, and assumed it related to the centerline on our side in the same fashion).
The old landowner came out and says "see this? This guy says to be EVERY fence is off 4 feet all down the street." I said "Does that sound right to you?" and he said "no", and I said "your'e right. This guy totally blew it, and I cannot believe he actually told this to you." We had to do a lotline adjustment because his house and landscape walls got built off these and it was a total conflict to the surrounding lots. I do not think they ever went after the surveyor. The old owner passed away before I finalized the LLA.
Got one more that is tragically funny.
This one is a 100 year old subdivision, all rectangular lots with a street diving things in the middle, but nothing was done on the area until the 1940s. You could take a cloth tape and measure 50 feet between all the occupation, and homes all have a 5-foot setback - basic 1940s bungalow types. The county set nails on the center street that were used for gutter improvements, but since they were tagged, a lot of guys in the 90s hold them for centerline and then go record off them.
I come out and had 3 different people tell me every fence is off 3 feet in the same direction. (I did my "does that sound right to you" line as usual). One guy was doing an addition, and not only did he have to jog his extension (the old house face would be at the code of 5 feet side setback, but since "he is 3 feet off" he is "existing non-conforming") over to create a weird jog in the side, his existing sewer lateral that came out the front was deemed to now be an encroachment. He had to get an easement for his lateral that was 2 feet inside the old fence line. After all, it was encroaching by a foot according to their surveyor.
> Did 2 surveys last week, both of which involve new monuments set by surveyors I know that do not go to the field. I would think on both, if these guys personally were doing the digging around, that they would be a lot less comfortable setting their monuments where they did, but perhaps not.
Yes, the "do not go to the field" is pretty much a recipe for some sort of chaos. You can probably get by with that approach in recent subdivisions, but elsewhere, not so much.
Anyone can blow it, I have, but the key is to learn from these things.
After I blew it one time I got a lot more careful and questioning of what I see around me.
I couldn't blame it on a field crew because I was the field crew. I got in too much of a hurry.
I am not trying to imply that I do not blow it at times, but it is the "degree of blowage" to which I refer.
I know.
What I hate is not having anybody to blame for blowing it. My regular field crew was out of town last week and there was an urgent elevation certificate that was needed. How hard can it be, so I go out there with my trusty office guy and it turns out to be the most convoluted house I've ever seen. There are at least 8 floor levels in this house and the LAG and HAG are not real intuitive either. So, on the one hand, I'm glad I didn't just send the crew out and have them handle it, but on the other hand, I forgot to take the photos so I had to go back the next day. The crew would probably remember the photos but might not have had the critical thinking skills to interpret the EC instructions regarding this particular house. I'm not sure I do either. When the lowest floor is a wine cellar in the middle of the house, the next highest floor is the sunken living room, then there's the step-down kitchen, the entry-way, the second floor of the main house, the garage floor with a ramp up to a higher garage floor, an office attached to the garage with a second floor above that and about 8 HVAC units at different levels behind the house, I had a hard time figuring out where to take my photos. Thank gosh for the comments section.
Did you run levels through the house?
I've never had to go beyond shooting the FF though the front door and the garage but I've only done one or two of those things.
Thankfully I have not had anything that intricate.
No, no level runs across the flawless hardwood floors. I was nervous I was going to drop the pocket tape and scar the floor. From the threshold, I just measured down with the pocket tape to the living room and kitchen floors. It was 14 steps down to the wine cellar (13X0.68)+0.58. Carefully brought in the level rod and measured up to the second floor from the entryway at the threshold level. Got a shot on the garage floor and on the driveway in front of the second floor above the garage, measured up with the level rod from the driveway to the second floor. Luckily, the benchmark was only 4 turns down the street from the property. The wine cellar is about 2.5' above floodplain, everything else is way up high. They're closing escrow on it real soon and the lender needed this ASAP. I am going to talk to the insurance agent to find out if the new owners could benefit from a LOMA. The LAG is several feet above FP, even higher than the wine cellar and if I understand flood insurance at all, the requirement can be waived if the LAG is above FP. Insurance agents don't advertise this fact, though, understandably so, I guess.
Kent
Nevermind
> You never stop facepalming at this stuff.
>
> I did one a few years ago where I found this guy was amazingly, four feet off on a lot that was only about 60-70-feet wide.
If I didn't know any better, I would think you are talking about a guy in the Denver. The only difference, is that he is not a office LS, he does most of his own work in the field. I (and others) have found his pins off 0.3' - 0.6' (most of the time) and even pins three feet off in an easy subdivision (if you shot the control and did some research) - Anymore, I see his stuff in the ground, I just ignore it.
The only consolation is, is that he spends most of this time of year hunting, so the damage he is creating tapers of in the fall.
The real problem is, the BOR doesn't act on this guy
> I keep wondering how hard, large and shiny their brass ones are that they can do this type of surveying. These properties are not exactly cheap here in the Bay Area!
So, are you going to turn him in? I understand your reluctance but unless a profession is willing to self police nothing is going to improve.
Contract crews, inadequate supervision, pins wrong by 2 feet, mortgage surveys for $90, title companies insuring title without a survey, Realtors saying the fence is on the property, mortgage companies using old surveys, architects wanting DWGs' for design that are 3 years old, the state of our profession.
Same ole - Same ole
has it always been that way
> So, are you going to turn him in? I understand your reluctance but unless a profession is willing to self police nothing is going to improve.
I am very reluctant to do this. I prefer the clients make the complaint.
