12 years ago we surveyed a rural property line that had a fence running along the line for about 1300 feet. The fence was a wooden fence that we found to be almost exactly on the line for the full distance. In checking the old field notes, we had a few shots on the fence that show the maximum we found it off line was about 0.3 ft, and the posts were 6" diameter. Our survey plat showed that the fence was on the line.
The guy called me yesterday fussing about my survey showing the fence on line but it was off about 3 inches according to his measurements.
Anyway, what are your thoughts about our calling the fence on line when it deviated worst case by possibly as much as 3 inches? Personally I don't think I have ever seen a rural fence like this follow a property line as well as this one.
In similar situations, after talking with the landowners, I usually learn that they treat the fence as the boundary, thus elevating the fence to monument status. I show it as such, regardless of how far "off line" it is.
> calling the fence on line
That's what I would have called it.
Some people just want to argue and he wanted you to help him argue.
I would have done what you did. Perhaps I would havae put a note on the plat stating that the fence varies from the property line no more than 0.3 feet.
Before I was licensed, I was working as a crew chief for a company. We were doing a small residential lot survey in a subdivision and found all monuments in place. A wooden privacy fence was "on line". The fence was built in such a way that the planks were on the neighbors side of the line. You would have thought that one neighbor had caught the other sleeping with his wife the way they were arguing.
Sounds like you have a similar case - someone wanting something to complain about.
I would have done as you and said the fence was on the line. I usually copy the bearing on a line with a fence "on it" and edit the text to read "generally with existing fence line" in order to give a little wiggle room for the chance that a piece of the fence I did not measure is not on the line.
for the standards of a rural survey Class D in Louisiana,
location of improvements, structures, paving etc is to be 1 FT +/-
I would call the fence an improvement and if it was off 0.25' by the survey measurement, it would not matter. You were correct to call it on the line.
If the client wanted a survey to show the precise placement of the fence, then that is another matter.
If someone wants to start a squabble for the 0.25', then let them pay for a survey showing the precise position by shooting every fence post on the line.
He'll never be satisfied. Cover your plat and issue a revision map and add a note describing a fenceline along said line plus or minus online OR stating plus or minus 0.3' (to either side of said line).
Please let us all know the progress.
How are you measuring the "fence"? Are you locating the exact center of every post, the left side or right side of every post? Is every post exactly the same diameter? Did you take multiple measurements to each post?
Good grief, some people just can't be satisfied. Walk Run away, your job is done. Life is far to short to worry about such irrelevant crap.
I just located some plat corners for a private party. The neighbor was complaining about the placement of an irrigation head, more specifically the water from the irrigation head. Turns out the center of irrigation head was about .04' on the side of the owner. Yet they are still arguing over it. According to my client, until this started they were the best of friends.
Life IS to short for this kind of thing.
I label it "fence along this line" rather than "on this line" for just this reason. If the client wants to know more about it we can negotiate a contract for that purpose. Of course you need to be careful in the initial contract that you deal with that type of thing.
If the fence is an uncalled for monument established by the client and neighbor, and the client didn't inform me of it, then it's an extra charge to locate it to the degree necessary for that purpose.
Fence follows line. That's my statement. A fence has width. Sometimes 12". Sometimes about 1/2" or less. It is impossible for all parts of the fence to be exactly on a line of no thickness.
I like the sprinkler head problem. While the visible sprinkler head may be 0.04' from the boundary line, the supply line may be across the line and the water spray will definitely cross the line without a barrier being installed.
Some idiots become landowners. Some idiots are always looking for something to argue about. Maybe the client DID sleep with the neighbor's wife. His encroachment was probably only about four inches, but, that is four inches too much.
Fence generally along line........
"Along or near a fence" or "near a fence ", if its not more than a couple of feet in rural areas. In town it get a little more complicated.
People who start that kind of crap should be shunned by the rest of the population.
John Harmon
As the cad drafter is was always told to put "on, over and along the line".No fence is perfect.
I would laugh out loud at the guy.
If a 6" wide fence is within 3 inches on a 1300' line; it is on-line for all practical purposes.
By any chance, was the guy's name Kent?
I would laugh out loud at the guy.
> If a 6" wide fence is within 3 inches on a 1300' line; it is on-line for all practical purposes.
>
> By any chance, was the guy's name Kent?
The Kent I know would have noted the fence as "wire fence within 0.3 ft. of line indicated" or (more typically for rural parcels "wire fence approximately on line". I would not use my compass to get a bearing basis, however.
In the city, I'd dimension it such as "chain link fence 0.15 - 0.24 ft. SW of lot line" if the fence is entirely on one parcel or another, and I still wouldn't use a compass to get a bearing basis.
I would laugh out loud at the guy.
I guess if they were put a thick coat of paint on the damn thing it would encroach another 0.002 feet. This is the first time I have seen this happen since 1980.
Another time, something similar happened with house built about 3 inches inside the owners property line. About 20 years later we surveyed it again for refinancing, and the dadgum house was about 2 inches OVER the line. I thought I had made a bad mistake until I found out that the owner had redone the outside of his house by adding some new studs and a complete additional wall on the outside of the existing exterior wall. I only found it when I happened to decide to check the overall house dimensions and saw that it had "swollen up."
Y'all are right. Some people will fight no matter what, and I would guess that the guy would not pay me after I went back out there and showed the fence not 100% dead center of the line.
I told him that I would not be able to be involved in this survey.
THANKS for all your constructive comments.
I would laugh out loud at the guy.
Tell the guy that you consider the fence along the line, but if he would like you to, you could locate each fence post and sketch up the fence post and the fence material and show where the line crosses that fence post. That'll probably either shut him up, or you can make some good easy money working for a week along a fence line, marking points on line and measuring up each post.:-)
I would laugh out loud at the guy.
For a slight fee I can come out and scan the entire fence. From that we can locate the fence within mm's
> 12 years ago we surveyed a rural property line that had a fence running along the line for about 1300 feet. The fence was a wooden fence that we found to be almost exactly on the line for the full distance. In checking the old field notes, we had a few shots on the fence that show the maximum we found it off line was about 0.3 ft, and the posts were 6" diameter. Our survey plat showed that the fence was on the line.
>
> The guy called me yesterday fussing about my survey showing the fence on line but it was off about 3 inches according to his measurements.
>
> Anyway, what are your thoughts about our calling the fence on line when it deviated worst case by possibly as much as 3 inches? Personally I don't think I have ever seen a rural fence like this follow a property line as well as this one.
It seems petty. We've had situations where we use a old fence Line as evidence in one direction, and proportion the other. Then get a call from a Surveyor ignoring evidence, double proportioning a corner. Missing everything by 20' ( or more), and saying we're wrong. Same Surveyor says fences mean nothing. The manual of instruction says double proportion. Tried to tell him it says as last resort. Evidence is more important, to establish original location. As we all know, a double proportion will rarely be near original position. Some Surveyors should not set Section Corners.