Jim in AZ, post: 333621, member: 249 wrote:
The City is signatory to the plat, which contains the dedication language. The moment the plat is signed the streets are open to public access (and usually utility construction.)
Not necessarily so Jim. Until the City accepts the subdivision improvements, it's not open to anyone. If the subdivision goes for years unimproved, the City may have never accepted it. Again, I refer to my earlier posts on this. Below is the codified law in Texas from the Local Government Code:
Sec. 212.011. EFFECT OF APPROVAL ON DEDICATION. (a) The approval of a plat is not considered an acceptance of any proposed dedication and does not impose on the municipality any duty regarding the maintenance or improvement of any dedicated parts until the appropriate municipal authorities make an actual appropriation of the dedicated parts by entry, use, or improvement.
Glenn Breysacher, post: 333809, member: 188 wrote: Not necessarily so Jim. Until the City accepts the subdivision improvements, it's not open to anyone. If the subdivision goes for years unimproved, the City may have never accepted it. Again, I refer to my earlier posts on this. Below is the codified law in Texas from the Local Government Code:
Sec. 212.011. EFFECT OF APPROVAL ON DEDICATION. (a) The approval of a plat is not considered an acceptance of any proposed dedication and does not impose on the municipality any duty regarding the maintenance or improvement of any dedicated parts until the appropriate municipal authorities make an actual appropriation of the dedicated parts by entry, use, or improvement.
In addition, jurisdictions that operate this way hold that private easements are created where necessary over the paper roads. So, access to lots is not a problem if the dedication is not accepted.
Glenn Breysacher, post: 333809, member: 188 wrote: Not necessarily so Jim. Until the City accepts the subdivision improvements, it's not open to anyone. If the subdivision goes for years unimproved, the City may have never accepted it. Again, I refer to my earlier posts on this. Below is the codified law in Texas from the Local Government Code:
Sec. 212.011. EFFECT OF APPROVAL ON DEDICATION. (a) The approval of a plat is not considered an acceptance of any proposed dedication and does not impose on the municipality any duty regarding the maintenance or improvement of any dedicated parts until the appropriate municipal authorities make an actual appropriation of the dedicated parts by entry, use, or improvement.
Gotcha Glenn. Here in Arizona the plat cannot be recorded until the City/County signs the Plat indicating acceptance. At that moment the streets are open to the public for access whether there are improvements or not unless the City barricades them. The City/County acceptance of improvements governs whether or not lots can be sold, but has no affect on public access.
It's interesting how different jurisdictions handle things...
Holy Cow, post: 333682, member: 50 wrote: I'm in the camp that figures error was error no matter where it was supposed to be. If your chain was long or short, it was long or short on everything you did.
I get it that some places the streets were actually located and centered precisely and all later control is in the streets. Extremely rare in these parts, though. Paper plats with a few wooden stobs stuck in critical places for the immediate goal of the developer, everything else came along years later as things got sold.
Thats it exactly Cow! Seems to me like a short chain is a short chain no matter whether its measuring a lot or a street.
Jim in AZ, post: 333813, member: 249 wrote: Gotcha Glenn. Here in Arizona the plat cannot be recorded until the City/County signs the Plat. At that moment the streets are open to the public for access whether there are improvements or not unless the City barricades them. The City/County acceptance of improvements governs whether or not lots can be sold, but has no affect on public access.
It's interesting how different jurisdictions handle things...
Yes, very interesting indeed. Thanks for the info on AZ Jim.
Duane Frymire, post: 333811, member: 110 wrote: In addition, jurisdictions that operate this way hold that private easements are created where necessary over the paper roads. So, access to lots is not a problem if the dedication is not accepted.
That's correct Duane.
"You can't adversely possess against the street."
But the govt can lose its full width through estoppel.
http://www.pobonline.com/articles/97517-traversing-the-law-when-estoppel-has-the-right-of-way
I'd sure like to see that article but I can't get into that "other" site no matter what I do... I'm registered and have a password they created and I can't get in. One of the reasons I don't go there.
Anyway, I'd really like to see the article...
RoadBurner, post: 333854, member: 6168 wrote: "You can't adversely possess against the street."
But the govt can lose its full width through estoppel.
http://www.pobonline.com/articles/97517-traversing-the-law-when-estoppel-has-the-right-of-way
And, you can adversely possess a street owned in fee by a government body, under the right circumstances.
When you get into older subdivisions, and the lines have been established by a means other than the plat, the lines have ripened. In PA, it's a race record situation. Who recorded first.
aliquot, post: 333430, member: 2486 wrote:
(this isn't the quote I wanted but it'll do)