Conventional/Robotic Setup

You have asked a very good question, one that I'm curious about as well.

We've used Leica robotics for at least ten years here and although switching from robotic to manual usage is not cut-and-dried, the results have been more than satisfactory. It would be nice if it was a one-button or two-button keypress to "lobotomize" the robotic instrument, but it ain't so.

We still book our angles/distances for referencing monuments, et cetera.

Manual/Robotic Setup

Yes, Manual/Robotic is what we're after. I saw a Leica demonstrated recently and was unimpressed...although that may have been because the rep was less than versed in whistling the thing back. Everything I've heard about Leica is good.

Manual/Robotic Setup

We have 2 Sokkia SX-105 robots with RC5 units. They work very well for us. They setup quickly, and it is easy to switch from robotic to conventional mode. The RC5 search function finds the prism quickly.

Really... the best bet is to get a demonstration, but don't get caught in the dog & pony show. Have them go in the field with you and walk you through using the equipment. That is how we got our Trimble S3. Company sent a demo and came and worked with us. Always consider service too!

I'm a big fan of the Trimble S6 and I've never really understood this whole robotic/manual thing. Yes, it's true that you have to run it through the data collector, but so what? Why does it matter if you're standing behind the gun or in front of it? If you really want to turn angles manually without setting up a job, backsight, etc., they have a provision for that. It's not like there's additional hardware required to go robotic, or less needed to go manual.

Manual/Robotic Setup

I've used them all and the rep must not have known what he is doing. In my experience the Leica is the best at searching/locking than any other brand.

It is easier, though, to kick off autolock on the Trimble robots and use them conventionally. I don't like the mag drive for conventional use, though, so I actually prefer the Leica for this as well.

Another problem with Trimble Robots is that sometimes you'll get on a project that has a harmonic that causes the mag drives to go nuts. It's rare for most people, but happened to me quite a bit as I did mostly architectural work with it (harder surfaces transfer vibration better). I had to stand at the gun and dampen the vibration by pinching the legs in a spot with my fingers, I often wondered if one of those piezo things that go on baseball bats could have been strapped to the legs to cancel it out...

One thing is certain, everyone seems to love which ever brand they have spent the most time with. I have actually spent most of my time with Trimble, and don't get me wrong they are great. It seems, however, that their hardware lacks that last little 10% of thought/machining that Leica seems to get.

Leica's are actually much easier to use with Carlson SurvCE than Leica's own data collection (I like Trimble Access better, though).

> I'm a big fan of the Trimble S6 and I've never really understood this whole robotic/manual thing. Yes, it's true that you have to run it through the data collector, but so what? Why does it matter if you're standing behind the gun or in front of it? If you really want to turn angles manually without setting up a job, backsight, etc., they have a provision for that. It's not like there's additional hardware required to go robotic, or less needed to go manual.

I want something that can wear it out in the open but be versatile enough to topo in the woods or across a busy intersection where robotic tracking would be difficult.

Just had a meeting with Trimble reps moments ago...

Robotic Tracking with Trimble is much more reliable with the Multi-Track Target, an active targeting system where there are powered diodes inside the target and the station tracks those rather than the reflection of the target itself. Also, the TSC3 controller has a navigational GPS system within it (standard, not an option) which sends lat/long locations via radio signal to the instrument which narrows down the search window when acquisition is lost, making it much quicker to automatically reacquire the target because as long as the controller is near the prism, it knows roughly where to look.

Now, mind you I haven't tried or tested these things, but this is what Trimble just told me.

I'm kind of with Lee here, only I've had a 5600 for years. I go from robot to manual as needed and all you have to do is push a button on the DC. Especially when using it in reflectorless mode. Sometimes I'll sight a BS too far away for robotic, but is my control point. Put a guy behind the gun and turn all the angles you want, but you do need to hook up to the DC where it all gets recorded.

To me it kind of defeats the purpose of paying for a robot if you only use it 50% of the time. I'm closer to 99%

I agree with Wayne, I've also had my 5600 for years and it is very rare that I use manual mode.

For topo in the woods with an active target, it is quicker to have someone at the instrument just turn into the vicinity of the rod and let the auto lock take over. I prefer to have the data collector at the rod anyway. That way the shot is always labeled correctly.

Works pretty much as described.

Also if you an S6 with the 'vision' option, you can use the screen on the TSC3 to see what the jigger is aimed at. Plus clicking on that screen points the jigger at the point. I'm finding this to be quite helpful in our congested urban environment

Once you get the mechanical side figured out, take a long hard look at what you are hooking it to. We've learned the hard way about limitations in communicating and processing data. Other hard lessons include sorting out the finger pointing after you buy yourself into a corner or modifying work-flows to include cumbersome extra steps.
Make the vendor show you the ENTIRE package from setup to adjusted data. The moral of the story- There is a lot more to robotics than maintaining lock...

> Make the vendor show you the ENTIRE package from setup to adjusted data. The moral of the story- There is a lot more to robotics than maintaining lock...

One additive I'll add is the annoyance of wearing polarized glasses/sunglasses and looking at the stupid screens. Kind of blank gray matter. I'm sure there is a work around out there, but I've always just lifted my glasses, or rotate the rod out of the glare - and hated it. But I keep plugging along.

The other thing about being robotic is always thinking outside the proverbial box. Many ways to skin that cat. I sincerely believe they are more geared for the solo RLS and not button pusher type crews on a mission. I'm sure the contrary will be shown though and I don't doubt it.

i have the 9003 and running it conventionally is really as easy as any other gun..its a little on the heavy side, but other than that i think it does fine..if I were you i would buy another used 9000 and if you want a conventional get a used conventional topcon....I liked the 3003 and I bet you could get one for cheap now. that way, you would have all matching equipment and a lighter gun for conventional.

Not to hijack the thread, but have you heard that Trimble is no longer supporting the 5600/Spectra Focus 10? I bought my Focus 10 brand new 4 years ago, and I'm really disappointed.

Topcon DS works well for us as both conventional and robotic and light and small. I am a big fan of this gun.

I am not going to encourage one brand over another. I will say, since you have been misinformed above.. that switching a Leica Robotic Instrument from Robotic to a Conventional to even a ATR Tracking Conventional Gun is very simple and can be done through the "Shift" "User" Menu on the screen. This gives you the ability shut down or turn off the features that you don't need.

As for the Field Controller, if you are running a RH16/CTR16 from the CS15 you are already using Bluetooth, just a long range Bluetooth, it works short range as well. Take it off the pole and use it behind the instrument. There are no comm settings that need to be changed.

> We've used Leica robotics for at least ten years here and although switching from robotic to manual usage is not cut-and-dried, the results have been more than satisfactory. It would be nice if it was a one-button or two-button keypress to "lobotomize" the robotic instrument, but it ain't so.

Easy, just create 2 configuration sets: 1 robotic, the other conventional. Pick the one you need.

I have been considering the Topcon as my crews need one small gun for out-of-town work. They establish site control, run a conventional traverse and then split up for topo with one guy on robot and one using GPS rover.

Do you use one of the DS instruments?
If so, how does it perform as a tracker? Does it stay with you well for topo?

Also, what data collector do you recommend? I think we use Spectra Ranger 3 withSurvey Pro Max version 5.4