Yesterday, I was called back to a site where we are laying out a proposed addition for a school. When I got there to set up I noticed this.
I know you can't quite see the hub in the ground, its a buried offset stake for a column line. You see underneath the footing for the addition is 'unsuitable' material that needs to be removed, then strutcural fill needs to be placed, compacted in 6" lifts before the footing can be poured (short version).
Well they filled right over by offset, compacted it, then dug it out so they could 'use' it.
Needless to say I had a site meeing with the contractor, followed up by emails, and memo's outlining how dangerous this is to both him and I.
Lots of fun!
How far was the offset from the footing?
Yes, bad practice for the contractor, and maybe the surveyor. The jobs I've been on, the (high accurate)column line stakes doesn't get set until after the footings are in. This is especially important when there has to be overdig for the foundation. This is an instance where I tell the contractor what will happen to the (first) stake before I set it. He can then decide how many trips he wants to pay me for or add some extra distance to the offset stake.
Had a roller run down the centerline blue top hubs of a road, then they wondered where the "wavy" grade came from!
-JD-
Good contractors can be very easy to work with.
Ones that send vibratory rollers over freshly set bluetops need to be hung.:bad:
it's ok- they can fix it with the 2", er, I mean the 3/4", errr, the plant mix, or maybe the stripe....;-)
> Good contractors can be very easy to work with.
>
> Ones that send vibratory rollers over freshly set bluetops need to be hung.:bad:
Ones that will use only one stake, especially such suspect ones, to build things also need to be hung.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
Machine Control doesn't have the problems of destroying stakes, hubs, offsets or bluetops because there aren't any and it gets graded correctly to the model the first time.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
That would be great if everyone that uses it has proper (more than a day or two with a salesman) training with control/gps prinicples. When i say training, I don't mean from the guy selling it either. That's the problem i see with it. Then when you come back to check their grades and the grades are off, they get irrate. I had one super tell me about all this and that "technology" that his construction company had spent money when i called him and told him that we had a couple thousand feet of road way off. I met him out their, he had a rover checking all of his check hubs and they were showing up good. I broke out the level, turned off a BM and it was out more than 0.1'. Thats when I had to explain to this "controlled systems coordinator" how to check into other control and make sure everything hasn't "moved". That day all of the job supers were out there, since then I haven't heard about how great machine control is from them.
I love it, when it works it's awsome, but your still have to have good tight control. It's the people that are in charge of these construction outfits like this that scare me, not the technology/machine control.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
> Machine Control doesn't have the problems of destroying stakes, hubs, offsets or bluetops because there aren't any and it gets graded correctly to the model the first time.
While I'll agree that machine control is pretty slick for many things (I didn't used to think that way, but I'm a bit more sold on it now), this was a hub set for column lines.
Most likely the grade is not an issue because Johnny on the Spot Contractor will set up his laser and shoot a BM somewhere. Or at least he better. However, a horizontal location IS a major issue and that cannot be achieved with MC for precise locations such as column lines.
Nice try though...;-)
Machine control would solve most of these problems
Never mentioned machine to be used for "precise locations such as column lines."
It is a tool for grading. Nice try though.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
That would be great if everyone that uses it has proper (more than a day or two with a salesman) training with control/gps prinicples. When i say training, I don't mean from the guy selling it either. That's the problem i see with it. Then when you come back to check their grades and the grades are off, they get irrate. I had one super tell me about all this and that "technology" that his construction company had spent money when i called him and told him that we had a couple thousand feet of road way off. I met him out their, he had a rover checking all of his check hubs and they were showing up good. I broke out the level, turned off a BM and it was out more than 0.1'. Thats when I had to explain to this "controlled systems coordinator" how to check into other control and make sure everything hasn't "moved". That day all of the job supers were out there, since then I haven't heard about how great machine control is from them.
I love it, when it works it's awsome, but your still have to have good tight control. It's the people that are in charge of these construction outfits like this that scare me, not the technology/machine control.
I agree they shouldn't use the equipment until properly trained. I also agree it starts with "good tight control" supplied by the surveyor. Bad control (from the surveyor) will give you bad results and should have been verified (but as the construction person thinks- the surveyor only sets good points and there isn't any errors in the control points given to them by the surveyor).
Machine control would solve most of these problems
It doesn't matter if control points "move" after the initial calibration is completed. It will not check with the original numbers, but it wouldn't effect the model or grading processes so I'm not sure what really went wrong on your site as long as the original calibration was good.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
Was waiting for that Thad.
jud
Machine control would solve most of these problems
> Never mentioned machine to be used for "precise locations such as column lines."
Machine Control doesn't have the problems of destroying stakes, hubs, offsets or bluetops because there aren't any and it gets graded correctly to the model the first time.
That sure seems to indicate no wood in the ground to me. But this is about column lines and Joe's legitimate concern was the disturbed stake, and I doubt it was about grade. Good thing he got there in time too, and hope he gets paid for the re-stake.
I think most of us will typically provide 1 or 2 local reference points for FF on a building, and try and avoid giving C/F on all the 5' or 10' corner offsets or jogs, etc. If the contractor wants all that, I'm real leary of them and they won't like my bill.
Thad..
Machine control is awesome for grades. I think its far superior than stakes, in the right hands of course.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
My point was no stakes set for columns until the grades are established for the pad.
Grade- set column stakes. Grade one time- stake one time (and stake only for the columns).
Thad..
:good:
Machine control would solve most of these problems
We mass grade, fine grade and pave concrete all by machine control and have no issues whatsoever. Its the cats meow.
I was running through a model in sitevision the oher day and couldnt help but think to myself that it wont be long before "operators" are running their machines from a cubicle.
Its coming boys and girls. The ship has set sail but there is still time to get out to it if you know how to swim.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
I see that one too, robotic earthmoving equipment controlled from a remote location. Kinda like a space ship or a drone. Maybe they already have it? I dunno, nor am I that smart.
But I think we all can agree that anchor bolts & column lines are alot different than slope staking or mass grading, even blue topping, for roadwork. When the steel don't fit, then even Houston has a problem (again).
Right tool for the right job comes to mind.
Glad I can still swim....;-)
PS - Roadie, I never liked Shane Doan either. Cheap shotter all the way.... always was and always will be. Hope your guy is ok and hope Doan retires soon. Glad you won, but thanks for the point.
Machine control would solve most of these problems
Remote control/ autonomous already exists and has for a while.
Google RAVEN-
Excerpt from an article-
"Currently,the RAVEN has a bucket, extended forks for
lifting pallets, and an automated Dynamic Cone Penetrometer (DCP). The automated
DCP allows a soil strength test to be conducted from inside the cab, and the test
results are stored on the computer located inside the vehicle.
The RAVEN is also equipped with autonomous controls. This capability allows
the vehicle to be operated from remote locations via a joystick and a series of
cameras mounted on board, or controlled by the on-board computer and software in a
completely autonomous mode. This type of operation would allow the vehicle to
conduct such tasks as surveying a large area with detailed coverage or sweeping a large
runway to eliminate debris with precision and minimum human interaction.
These were used during the JRAC (Joint Rapid Airfield Construction) that i was involved with back in 2004. Link to Demo and other info
Enjoy.
