> I'd be pretty pissed if someone yanked my rod and then set their own a foot away.
>
> Plastic caps pop off all the time - frost, animals, kids, etc.
>
> I think that a search for plans and questioning the neighbors are order, to find out the origin of the rod.
>
> If it's by another surveyor, I'd give him a call. If it's from some unlicensed clown or field guy moonlighting, then I may not have a problem lifting it.
Who set the fnd rebar, and what the measurements are to the fnd rebar are of little consequence in determining if they mark the corner or not. The pertinent question is does the fnd "monument" truely occupy the position of the corner? If not, get it out of the way to prevent confusing not only the public, but other surveyors. Find, analyze, and perpetuate the evidence of the corner, to if possible, prevent future confusion and litigation. The landowner is making a reasonable request. There are no laws against removing pieces of metal from the ground. The laws are in place to protect property corners and the monuments occupying their positions, not random pieces of junk.
From IL:
(b) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and knowingly to remove, destroy, injure, or displace any geodetic control monument or property corner monument except under the authority of the agency which originally set the monument or, in the case of a property corner monument, under the authority of a registered land surveyor or duly elected or appointed county surveyor having the written permission of all landowners who are parties to said property corner monument. In the case of a geodetic control monument, the record of any authorized change shall be published; and, in the case of a property corner monument, the record of any authorized change shall be filed for record in the office of the clerk of the superior court of the county in which the monument is located.
(c) Any person who violates this Code section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not less than $100.00 nor more than $500.00 and may also be punished by imprisonment for not less than 30 days nor more than 60 days.
I'd take the detector with and look again before setting anything. I've seen a lot of monuments missed because something more obvious was next to them.
There's a good chance that a licensed surveyor set that rod.
I'd be after finding out who and why, before I made any decision to pull it.
No one has never made a mistake. And in this case it's either him or you.
Just because you say it's not a monument doesn't mean that some else does.
You should know that (and everything else about that monument) before deciding to reject it.
Just because you think it's bogus doesn't make it so. It means that you have a difference of opinion with the guy who put it there. What if you can't determine who the other guy is? You just pull his pin?
Bob
"If you think it's wrong, pull it."
Surely you jest! Who in the world taught you that?! I would support license suspension for doing that...
I can't imagine rejecting an found monument 1' away from where I think a corner is located...
Rob,
That is what I was thinking.
Just because a marker does not occupy the location of the property corner does not mean it is not a monument, just that it is not a monument located at the corner.
Even if I know the entire history of the "monument" and still disagree with it as marking the corner location, I do not pull another surveyor's pin (that sounds questionable in more ways than one).
You can very clearly indicate on the plat and in conversation with your client that you are not honoring the existing monument.
Now if the "monument" is discovered to be something other than a "monument" (i.e. it is discovered to be a pin stuck in the ground to string for a fence line), I would not object to pulling it.
In the past, I was actually told to bump another companies pin over. I refused because:
1. If the following surveyor thinks it is wrong, give the other person the opportunity to look into it and change it.
2. The other surveyor may have information you missed.
3. If the other surveyor comes back later and uses that pin, there is no telling how much wasted time you can cost them by bumping (or removing) their marks of a prior survey.
> I can't imagine rejecting an found monument 1' away from where I think a corner is located...
Not even if.....
Your research and field locations indicate that the "monument" was probably stubbed in from front lot corners based on a scrivener’s error on a plat distance and falls 1' short of the moumented and occupied rear line? And you practice in a state whose courts have made the distinction between acquiescence and mistaken belief?
What I can't imagine, given the fact that it near to impossible to include all the “whys and wherefores” of a situation, is reading a post and assuming the original poster, most likely a fellow professional, is an incompetent buffoon rather than having a legitimate, albeit uncommon, reason for his or her actions.
> In the past, I was actually told to bump another companies pin over. I refused because:
>
> 1. If the following surveyor thinks it is wrong, give the other person the opportunity to look into it and change it.
>
This should have already happened before the following surveyor formed his opinion.
> 2. The other surveyor may have information you missed.
This also should have been found out BEFORE the following surveyor formed an opinion.
> 3. If the other surveyor comes back later and uses that pin, there is no telling how much wasted time you can cost them by bumping (or removing) their marks of a prior survey.
If 1 & 2 have been satisfied, number 3 no longer applies. So, if in the opinion of the following surveyor the "marker" is of no significance, there is no excuse not to yank the sucker, and if the existing marker is occupying the position of the corner, there is no excuse to set another marker.
Bob
> "If you think it's wrong, pull it."
>
> Surely you jest! Who in the world taught you that?! I would support license suspension for doing that...
Really? ---
The facts are that the client asked to you survey his land and to show him precisely where his boundaries and corners are. He does not want a drawing that says "hey, I found this pin & i don't know who put it there, but it's not your property corner, and I'm just going to tell you and provide you a nice little drawing stating that the existing pin is not correct."
WOW!
The client hired you to mark his land with survey markers.
The client is not getting what he hired you to do.
BTW- without your nice little pretty map, nobody would ever know that the wrong pin is wrong. A map does not a survey make.
Bob
> "If you think it's wrong, pull it."
>
> Surely you jest! Who in the world taught you that?! I would support license suspension for doing that...
A technicality, but I think the first line should read "If you can prove it is wrong, based on the best available evidence, pull it."
No one should be making a decision to either accept it, leave it alone, or jerk it out without all the facts. However, as stated before, there is no law against pulling a meaningless piece of rebar out of the ground.
Well, I would agree with you in theory, but I have read too many posts on the message board of surveyors who do not contact neighboring property owners and do not contact prior surveyors. So I suspect item 1 and 2 do not always get addressed as well as they should be.
Further, there is always the possibility of a reasonable difference of professional opinion as to where the corner should fall. Even after following item 1 & 2.
And that is the view I look at it from.
It is not my choice as to where the other surveyor places a marker. I can, and do, talk with them about any discrepancies. However, if they are incorrect (in my opinion), the other surveyor needs to address removal of any markers. Another person has paid money for the surveyor to do a job and has paid to have those corners set. If I pull them, I have taken from their client what they paid for - it may not have been worth the money they paid, but it (the survey - incorrect pins and all) is their property.
If a neighbor shows you a copy of the survey he had done and you disagree with it,
would you look at it,
say "that is all wrong",
then send it through the shredder?
In either instance (pulling pins, shredding plats), you are destroying what another person has paid for.
The only instance I can see doing so would be if all property owners affected by the pin are in agreement with removing it and the surveyor who set it in error is notified that the neighbors have requested it be removed.
Bob
"but it's not your property corner"
Therein lies your problem - that pin IS the property corner unless you can prove it isn't! Failure to realize this is why we have the pincushion problem...
Jim
You may be under the assumption that A PLS must have set the iron for what ever reason . But in my local, large companies allow party chiefs to run a round a job and set corners based on their two starting points . Whenever I see one of the names on the map I know that the corner is not there or its wrong.
"Not even if.....
Your research and field locations indicate that the "monument" was probably stubbed in from front lot corners based on a scrivener’s error on a plat distance and falls 1' short of the moumented(sic) and occupied rear line?"
Probably not, although you have added a monument to the equation that was not in the original post.
I am having difficulty understanding why so many are afraid of creating an actual pin farm when in reality they are creating a digital pin farm. There should be a definite monument in the ground at each corner. Based on some of the responses that I see on this Board, a corner where four adjoiners meet could have five different answers based on the four deeds and the actual location of the found monument. This might fall within the acceptable positional tolerance of a GIS, however, it should not be acceptable to a Professional Surveyor. When I perform a survey, I give an opinion as to the location of the corner. This corner will be monumented either set or found. Obviously determining if this particular monument that is a foot away from the computed location is the true corner would be a function of the size of the tract, monument description in the written conveyance, other evidence found and many other possible factors. I definitely am not wanting to see more than one monument near a corner. Why would any one think it more confusing to set a capped monument in the correct location and show a tie on your plat to the monument you have rejected. Although I have never heard of it being enforced, we have a law in Georgia forbidding the destruction of property monuments. Therefore, I would not remove the erroneous monument; however, I would show it on the plat.
😉