Shoot, they even carry here at the Cape Cod National Seashore!
imaudigger, post: 455318, member: 7286 wrote: Yes there are many forest rangers that carry weapons when enforcing laws on public lands.
They use SWAT style gear when necessary.
They are not Forest Rangers they are Forest Service Law Enforcement people. Forest Rangers are little fat people that stay in the office.
Michael White, post: 454601, member: 12162 wrote: I almost always carry. What I carry depends on where I'm working. Rural, Judge revolver with. 410 shells and 45 LC. Urban, 9mm semi-auto with at least two 17 round magazines. Very high crime rate in my urban area.
Wow, I hope you charge 5x the "normal survey fee" when you are in those areas. 😎
ps: a Judge, in my opinion, is only good for 10-15 ft. 😉
Skeeter1996, post: 455338, member: 9224 wrote: They are not Forest Rangers they are Forest Service Law Enforcement people. Forest Rangers are little fat people that stay in the office.
I think they are technically forest rangers, who's job is to protect/preserve the public lands. But I understand what you mean.
It's a dang good thing they keep firearms out of the hands of the rest of the employees. They are bad enough with their shoulder patch and little pin on USFS emblem.
I've spent at least one month a year for the past 20 in our National Forests. Every single USFS employee I've dealt with has been great. Of course I don't treat the forest like it's my personal dump and shooting range. Then again maybe I'm just lucky...
FL/GA PLS., post: 455356, member: 379 wrote: Wow, I hope you charge 5x the "normal survey fee" when you are in those areas. 😎
I once gave someone a $32,000 ballpark figure for an ALTA survey on an apartment complex in DC. When they complained it was almost twice what another surveyor quoted, I told them that it would cost me $15K to find and train a new instrument man if one of mine got shot in that hell hole.
Had an instrument man for years that got his start in the USFS. I wouldn't let him carry a firearm if my life depended on it. We were on a remote job miles off the road and we had one chainsaw. Need to cut out a 2000' of line and he grabs the chainsaw, "I was in the USFS, of course I can run a chainsaw!' Fifteen minutes later he comes back with his head hanging, "I think it's broke". Bar's frozen, he didn't put any bar oil in it and ran it full throttle until the bar fried. From then on I'd tease him that he must have been 'USFS Special Forces, Special Olympics Division'. Him walking behind me with a loaded 12 gauge? I don't think so. I felt my odds of living through the day were better with the bears.
James Fleming, post: 455456, member: 136 wrote: I once gave someone a $32,000 ballpark figure for an ALTA survey on an apartment complex in DC. When they complained it was almost twice what another surveyor quoted, I told them that it would cost me $15K to find and train a new instrument man if one of mine got shot in that hell hole.
I don't and won't do ALTA's. I have done work in the Hood (Townhome and single family project) but never again.
The semi automatic bumps legs too much then I have to relevel. 😉
thebionicman, post: 455455, member: 8136 wrote: I've spent at least one month a year for the past 20 in our National Forests. Every single USFS employee I've dealt with has been great. Of course I don't treat the forest like it's my personal dump and shooting range. Then again maybe I'm just lucky...
Of course they were great - it was probably the weekend and they were making time and a half doing god knows what driving back and forth on the roads.
probably stopped and chatted with you for 30 minutes or so.;)
From carry a gun to bashing the Forest Service. You really have stay on your toes in this Forum.
Skeeter1996, post: 455528, member: 9224 wrote: From carry a gun to bashing the Forest Service. You really have stay on your toes in this Forum.
Bashing?...that wasn't bashing. I have a good amount of respect for the USFS (of the 1950's).
Anytime you start talking guns in a surveying forum, the topic is bound to stray (even if it is a simple yes/no answer).
imaudigger, post: 455530, member: 7286 wrote: Anytime you start talking guns in a surveying forum, the topic is bound to stray (even if it is a simple yes/no answer).
Guns?
Yes
imaudigger, post: 455534, member: 7286 wrote:
Isn't that a Guppy?
I never used one, but I remember seeing a few of them around.
Loyal
There are a few places on USFS land that I go target shooting. I almost always end up cleaning up not only after my own party, but also any mess that might have been left by slobs using the same location.
I've often had the same experience when engaging in many other activities. I've gone to a park or other picnic spot and have had to clean up the trash others left on the ground rather than placing in the garbage can less than 100' away. When in the field and getting something to eat at a fast food joint or convenience store, or finding a shady parking spot for a dashboard lunch, I've seen other drivers toss their food wrappers out the window on the ground rather than getting their lazy buts out of the vehicle and walking 25' to a trash can. I've seen people open the car door and dump a pile of cigarette butts out of the pavement when the garbage can is very near. I hated to see that even when I was a smoker.
Going back to picnic experiences, I can't begin to estimate how many thousands of times I've seen vulgarities carved into the tables and other results of senseless vandalism equally or more destructive than the idiots who shoot at road signs.
The point being, that there are responsible people and irresponsible people who engage in almost all legal activities. As far as coming up with examples of those who shouldn't engage in an activity, I typically run across several every time I drive to or from work. A couple thousand pounds of motorized metal is at least as susceptible to abuse or negligent operation as is any firearm, and has the potential to be much more destructive.
I haven't often worked in high crime areas, and am nearing the point in my career that I'd consider retiring before working in such an area. But someone has to do the work there. It seems prudent for a surveyor to carry a firearm suited for protection against human criminals and overly aggressive dogs when and if they find themselves faced with working in such areas.
When I've worked in areas where wildlife is big and aggressive (bears, moose, etc.), I've carried. While with the BLM in AK, I often open carried (meaning not concealed, but on my work belt for easy access and visible to anyone standing nearby) a 44 Mag revolver with 230 gr ammo. Occasionally I would carry one of the BLM 12 gauges with one shell of heavy bird shot backed with several slugs.
In the lower 48, I've only felt it necessary to carry a handful of times. Again, each time against the possibility of animal threat rather than human.
If someone chooses to carry all the time, concealed is best if you're likely to encounter people, but I prefer open carry for remote locations.
If someone chooses to carry at any time, ever, they need to be completely familiar with the tool they have. Be intimately familiar with its operation and safety features. Unless you were raised around firearms and taught by someone both knowledgeable and safety conscious, you should get formal training. Don't just be familiar with safe firearm practices - those things need to be ingrained into your behavior so much that safe handling of guns is automatic and as foreign and nonsensical to you as using a prism pole or rover pole as a prybar.
You also need to make time to practice often enough to keep your safety habits and your shooting skills (including target and non-target recognition) sharp.
Commenting on the story about the guy who shot himself jumping a creek. Not meaning to be unsympathetic to his pain and injury, but that sounded like a clear case of negligent discharge resulting from multiple preventable errors. Someone properly carrying should be able to jump a creek, even jump and roll without their sidearm coming loose or discharging.
First off, guns don't just "go off" just as chainsaws don't just start cutting and hammers don't just go a pounding without some human action to cause it to do so. A saw may make an unintended cut or a hammer an unintended strike, each of which can cause injury, but in each case, the tool is somehow acted upon negligently in order to go into potentially injury causing action. Same for a gun. If one ignores the safe handling principles specific to any tool, accidents can, and eventually will happen if the handling practices aren't changed.
With a sidearm, regardless of action type (revolver or semiauto), it is essential that the holster be one that holds the weapon securely enough that an accidental drop is a near impossibility. If the holster fails to hold the gun in place, either from wear, difficulty engaging the retention mechanism, or a poor retention design for the conditions in which you will be carrying, get a different holster.
Second, a properly loaded gun should not, and even though I may get some argument from some, I'll say will not discharge when dropped. An exception may exist where the drop is enough to cause damage to the structure of the gun. One might argue about certain single action revolvers.
Well, some experienced revolver shooters have pointed out the safe use practice for those guns. You don't carry with a live round in the chamber under the firing pin.
Most modern double action, and even single action revolvers have updated designs that greatly minimize the possibility of an unintended discharge - under normal carrying conditions for most people. If you are going to be jumping creeks, or possibly making any movements that involve jarring stops, rolling on the ground, or bouncing off obstacles, that's not considered normal conditions. Keep that chamber under the pin empty.
Same basic rule for semis. Most modern ones are designed so that you can carry one in the chamber, even in conditions that might be extra strenuous or hazardous compared to what most will encounter. But if you expect to be a human pinball in the woods, bouncing off trees and rocks, jumping over obstacles and fighting off the grasping branches of dense underbrush, don't carry one in the chamber.
Lastly, the butt end of the pistol grip may seem like a handy means to tap a tack into a hub, but don't do it!
That's what plumb bobs are for.
