BLM monuments

I had a similar (distance instead of bearing though) situation some years back. I notified BLM Cadastral of my findings, they went out and checked the measurements, and MOVED their Monument over.

Problem solved...
Loyal

Yeah (those were the days), I let them know, but they weren't interested in dealing with-leaving totally up to me.

Gee, I hope it was not in Montana and one of my corners......wait, if it was mid 70's, I was out of the field.

I would think that the State Office would be interested and correct it, if in fact it is an error like you described.

What State?

Keith

It's in Montana. I think the compass the "move" crew was using was flipped. Many of the prorated corners I've tied in the township are "off" like this one. One E1/16 was 120' south of the south line of Section 28. The BLM came in in 97 and "fixed" that line.

No worries though; I just need to be careful in that township. Many of those corners are what might be called "bean counter" corners. They don't mark BLM land-they actually are controlling corners for BLM mineral estate. And not all minerals in this case only 40 acre coal tracts that got reserved out of later patents. All the oil and gas in the area is private-so just what the corners really mean is iffy anyway. But, the questin becomes do you kink a section line to them.

When I was in business in Wyoming, I ran across a BLM monument that was, if I remember correctly, around 14' out of position. I called the BLM office in Cheyenne and told one of the guys in Cadastral that I knew about it and he said for me to move their monument over to where it was supposed to be. I told him that I would not move their monument, but I would set an 8" spike at the correct position. A few days later, the called me back and said that they went out and checked the momument and that my spike was correct and that they had moved their monument. I always sent them a copy of any maps that showed any corners that I had re-establihed or recovered during my many miles of route surveys in the state. I always got along with the BLM people that I dealt with and they would help with any problem that I encountered.

I always got along with the BLM people that I dealt with and they would help with any problem that I encountered.

Me too. They are good guys and will work with you. The Montana office doesn't have the same ability (budget, field hands, ect.) that the Wyoming office has. No problem with those guys at all. And they know what they are doing.

But, I think the days when they get out to the field to correct something little like this issue are pretty much gone. You need to put in a request for a survey and wait (maybe for years).

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

In recent months there have been discussions to the effect that monuments alawys hold and that the surveyor setting the monument can never make a mistake. Not my belief, but there are those on this board that take that attitude.

So which is it - can a surveyor make a mistake and set a corner in the wrong place and later surveyors can correct the situation? Or do you blindly follow what you find - especially in cases like described here that there is no doubt that the monument you found was set by the surveyor? Not just some random hunk of metal to tie up a goat.

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

Dave,

You have very good points and the issue of moving monuments because of some error that is discovered, is a very slippery slope!

Ordinarily, if the monument has been in the ground, accepted by adjoining land owners, and an error discovered; it may well be the best professional decision to make is to leave it where it is found.

We know that there is always going to be some error in the positions of corner monuments and the general policy should be that the monument stays where it is set.

Obviously a different decision can be made, but extreme caution should be considered.

It never will be a black and white decision and each case has to be decided on the facts at hand.

Keith

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

In recent months there have been discussions to the effect that monuments alawys hold and that the surveyor setting the monument can never make a mistake. Not my belief, but there are those on this board that take that attitude.

Sometimes you have to take a step onto that slippery slope.

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

In the words of a former co-worker: "This is why they pay us hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year!"

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

During that very long thread awhile back I was a strong advocate of fixing an obvious problem instead of continuously perpetuating it because the last surveyor(s) had used the momument. I found very little agreement here.

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

I agree if there is little or no disruption in harmony and with the full knowledge of those affected. Caught early, by early I mean little reliance or reliance by few a correction should be a priority. Perpetuation of an error while there is little or no disturbance in making the correction is not doing anyone a favor. Again, common sense and judgement must be in play. But always holding what is found as a way of life may make for easy surveys, it is poor practice, just as always setting new monuments where monuments exist that the measurements don't closely match the record is.
jud

Now wait a minute guys and gals ...

Whether to fix the monument or leave it is largely a question of fact.

No two cases are exactly alike.

I don't believe in an extreme position either way, personally.

Sometimes it is correct to fix it and sometimes it is correct to leave it. It is rarely a question of mathematics, though.