Okay, there is some discussion about the policy of the BLM regarding grossly erroneous survey markers that fall within its jurisdiction to correct.
Just to start things off, here is an example from 2007, a corrective resurvey in Twp 47 N, Range 78 W, of the Sixth Principal Meridian, Wyoming. The corner in question is in Johnson County, Wyoming.
Evidently, a modern BLM resurvey with GPS found the 1/4 corner between Sections 22 and 27 that had been set by the BLM in 1987 to be about 160 ft. out of its proper position. So, to prevent the confusion the BLM removed the 1987 corner monument, altered it by adding the stamping "AM 2007" and buried it half a foot below grade.
This obviously indicates that the BLM recognized the danger of leaving grossly erroneous monuments in place and that some measure needed to be taken to make it very unlikely that the erroneous monument would be inadvertently used.
http://www.wy.blm.gov/cadastral/countyplats/johnson/t47nr78w_gp773.pdf
Are you sure they removed it? It reads to me like they just drove it down a foot so it was below the surface.
> Are you sure they removed it? It reads to me like they just drove it down a foot so it was below the surface.
Well, we can look at the details of standard iron posts with flared bases, but I don't think that such a post can usually be driven, particularly not with a brass cap. You've got to pull it out, dig a deeper hole, and bury the works if you want it half a foot below grade.
By the way, I trust you noticed how the BLM left the private surveyor's monument in place. They pulled it out of the ground, set their own standard stainless steel post and dropped the private surveyor's re-bar inside their post, invisible since the post was capped.
By the way, what makes you think the rebar was a private surveyor's corner? You didn't state that in your initial post - maybe it was, however, in the notes.
But, could they have put the rebar inside the stainless steel post so that a Schonstedt would have something to pick up? Maybe it's just good standard practice.
Or maybe it was something they found there.
> By the way, what makes you think the rebar was a private surveyor's corner?
It's described in the narrative on the plat I linked above.
> Evidently, a modern BLM resurvey with GPS found the 1/4 corner between Sections 22 and 27 that had been set by the BLM in 1987 to be about 160 ft. out of its proper position.
I'm guessing those lands hadn't been patented yet. 2.4 chains wouldn't have been worth disturbing bona fide rights.
Thank you. Missed that.
^ retract the above, hadn't read the narrative on the linked plat. It wasn't clear from OP's post the BLM wasn't correcting it's own work (Evidently, a modern BLM resurvey with GPS found the 1/4 corner between Sections 22 and 27 that had been set by the BLM in 1987 to be about 160 ft. out of its proper position)
>(Evidently, a modern BLM resurvey with GPS found the 1/4 corner between Sections 22 and 27 that had been set by the BLM in 1987 to be about 160 ft. out of its proper position)
Or to put it another way, some Expert Measurers with the BLM realized that some Inexpert Measurers had really foxed a survey up and corrected the fox-up by pulling up the monument that the private surveyor had set in the proper position of the corner, setting their stainless steel pipe with cap and preserving the private surveyor's monument by dropping it into their pipe before they fastened the cap on to seal it in. :>
Kent
And your point is?
Looks like the BLM agreed with the location of the 1/4 sec. cor. as set by the private surveyors and amended (corrective resurvey) previously set iron post for the same 1/4 sec. cor.
As we can see, the corrective resurvey has the 1/4 sec. at exact midpoint and on line between sec. cors.
We do not know what was accepted in the BLM resurvey for the same corner in 1987?
But there has to be a point to this, right Kent?
And it ain't the BLM ordering a survey monument to be obliterated as you accuse below.
I think the land surveyors here can understand what the BLM did in this case.
Keith
Kent
> Looks like the BLM agreed with the location of the 1/4 sec. cor. as set by the private surveyors and amended (corrective resurvey) previously set iron post for the same 1/4 sec. cor.
Yes, they agreed with it so well that they pulled the private surveyor's marker out and set their own post and cap monument, being sure to drop the private surveyor's marker inside the pipe post and seal it up with the brass cap. :>
> As we can see, the corrective resurvey has the 1/4 sec. at exact midpoint and on line between sec. cors.
>
> We do not know what was accepted in the BLM resurvey for the same corner in 1987?
Well, I do give a link to the plat with a narrative, eh?
> And it ain't the BLM ordering a survey monument to be obliterated as you accuse below.
Okay, so pulling up a private surveyor's monument and dropping it inside a pipe permanently sealed with a cap is just "taking real good care of it"? And pulling up the monument from 1987, altering the stamping on the cap, digging a hole a foot deeper and dropping the old monument into it so that it ends up buried half a foot below grade isn't in effect just wishing it would go away?
Here's another one, this also in Wyoming, in which the BLM removed the existing monuments that they had set in 1966 to mark PLSS corners and buried them well below grade, using Expert Measuring techniques to set their new post and cap monuments in the proper positions of the corners.
http://www.wy.blm.gov/cadastral/countyplats/sweetwater/t17nr94w_gp705fn.pdf
But I've saved the best for last
But I've saved the best for last. In the field notes for the Corrective Dependent Resurvey of a Portion of the Subdivisional Lines, T.47 N., R.76 W., Sixth Principal Meridian, Wyoming, this paragraph reveals that the BLM pulled up quite a few of the monuments they had set in 1990 and ... moved them to where they should have been set.
>"No evidence was found that indicated the erroneous monuments had been utilized by the public, therefore the decision was made to move the monuments to their correct proportionate positions rather than amending them and setting new monuments at the correct positions."
They just pulled the old monuments and reset them in another position. The field notes tell the story in detail:
http://www.wy.blm.gov/cadastral/countyplats/campbell/t47nr76w_gp729fn.pdf
But I've saved the best for last
Read page one for the reason this corrective resurvey was executed.
I am still trying to understand what the hell you are trying to prove.
Keith
But I've saved the best for last
> Read page one for the reason this corrective resurvey was executed.
Yes, that was obvious. The 1990 BLM survey was severely foxed up.
> I am still trying to understand what the hell you are trying to prove.
So, it hasn't dawned on you that what the BLM actually did is completely inconsistent with your idea that they carefully preserved every survey marker? In reality, when there was a reason to do so, they simply pulled up all the monuments and started over. It's not as if the monuments were magic and couldn't be corrected.
And why did they make the corrections that they did? I mean none of those errors would bother Keith Williams, I wouldn't think. It was all just Expert Measurer stuff. No, they made the corrections because they recognized that not to do so so would only compound problems in the future. This is exactly the reason why it is smart and professional not to leave similar messes in place between private owners when there is no reason to.
Kent
It becomes very obvious that you have no clue on what BLM does in the PLSS and your silly posts here show that you are desperately attempting to prove that BLM has ordered the obliteration of survey monuments, private or theirs.
You have thus proven your ignorance in what happens in the real world.
Stick to your straight line only between only original monuments and call it surveying.
The rest of the world knows what it is to accept the work of previous land surveyors and the courts are fully aware that measurements do not rank above monuments that have been duly established.
This exercise of yours only shows your ethical smallness for all to see.
I challenged you to come up with examples to prove your silly accusations that BLM has ordered the obliteration of survey monuments and you only go off with these examples of BLM correcting their own mistakes that in fact have been shown to them by private surveyors.
Keith
Kent
> It becomes very obvious that you have no clue on what BLM does in the PLSS and your silly posts here show that you are desperately attempting to prove that BLM has ordered the obliteration of survey monuments, private or theirs.
Okay, so you don't see pulling up a monument and dropping it into a pipe sealed with a brass cap to be an obliteration of the monument? Likewise, you see removing a pipe post and brass cap monument, digging a hole a foot deeper, dropping the post into it so that it's at least six inches below ground level as leaving the monument exactly as it was?
> I challenged you to come up with examples to prove your silly accusations that BLM has ordered the obliteration of survey monuments and you only go off with these examples of BLM correcting their own mistakes that in fact have been shown to them by private surveyors.
Well, actually, if it doesn't bother you that they pulled up the existing survey markers in the vicinity of the corner and moved them to new positions because it would cause fewer problems than leaving them in foxed-up positions, it sounds as if I've convinced you that removing or relocating monuments can be a good option in some cases. You're welcome.
I mean, you formerly would have held that all of the erroneously set monuments should be left in place as they were and new ones set. That's what this whole discussion has been about, whether to correct problematic surveying fox-ups or to just leave them as they are and watch them grow.
Kent
You are being pathetic!
Keith
Kent
> You are being pathetic!
So, is that your best answer? I take the time to show you some examples of the BLM doing precisely what you've condemned me for and you ... moonwalk away from the BLM?
Kent
Kent, Keith really, really hates losing even when he absolutely has no chance to win.... But it is sure a blast to watch!
Oops-me bad...
Oh well...
