> It bums me that some are committed to this profession, only by the dollars, and they did not bid enough dollars.
>
> N
Nate the really sad part is the guy that signed the bum survey or corner reference may not have ever been in the State. I have run into crews with out-o-state-plates running up and down the section line on $20,000 four-wheelers like their hair is on fire. When I finally get a chance to chat with them I realize the oldest one of the bunch is 19. And I'm sure they've got a boss that has whipped them into believing that everything has to be done at break-neck speed.
The poor old surveyor that is in charge of signing all the junk they do is four states away...and he has six such crews running amuck.
I don't believe it is lack of commitment, I believe it is lack of proper supervision.
>I have run into crews with out-o-state-plates running up and down the section line on $20,000 four-wheelers like their hair is on fire. When I finally get a chance to chat with them I realize the oldest one of the bunch is 19. And I'm sure they've got a boss that has whipped them into believing that everything has to be done at break-neck speed.
>
> The poor old surveyor that is in charge of signing all the junk they do is four states away...and he has six such crews running amuck.
>
> I don't believe it is lack of commitment, I believe it is lack of proper supervision.
The existence of technology is what makes quite a bit of quick'n'dirty "surveying" possible. In the old days, the map would be scrawled in pencil on a leaf from a Big Chief tablet and anyone could see it was a half-baked POS. These days, it's a technicolor CAD drawing with a fancy North arrow and franchise logo that looks semi-plausible to the undiscerning.
It also sounds like RTK pretty much has to be involved in these hit-and-run surveys. The problem with having equipment that can be used in the flicker of an eyelid is that the goal of the possessor is to use it that way. Digging will slow that up big time.
Just remember that Gram also had a Harvard education to add to his credentials. 🙂
I guess his greatest accomplishment aside from his songwriting was "discovering" Emmylou.
Nice suit but I think that there was a later alteration to that suit that had a lot of prescription pills added.
I find the worst surveys here are produced by people with local zip codes. It doesn't matter if the crew is 5 blocks or 500 miles away. If the LS doesn't give a crap you get garbage.
As an aside, our trucks have hit 4 States this year. We exceed the standard of care in all of them.
A wake of destruction,,the endless dialogue
continues this scenario that never cease here on the forum.
It reminds me of the scene in Frankenstein when the mob of villagers light their torches to chase down the “monster’ to set him aflame.
Maybe it is time to examine the various reasons that this is occurring in your locale.
Yes, price may be an issue. An out of town firm that runs multiple crews may send a crew to your area for a quickie/cheapo survey to expand their work on the fact that their other crews can help offset that profit margin.
If you are licensed in that state, they have the right to survey in that state. A lot of surveyors who post here have multiple licenses and do a lot of out of town/state work. They are qualified.
Maybe you need to look at your business and think about why the locals are not contacting you for work of this nature and why are they bringing in some non-local firm.
The xenophobic nature of the rural surveyor shouldn’t be the reason to lash out at these surveyors. You may have to look into the mirror and not see yourself in the local "good ole boy' image. Many have grown weary of the back slapping, hand shaken nyuk, nyuk prattle of these types.
A surveyor with the knowledge and expertise can practice mostly anywhere he chooses.
So they haven’t used the proper section corer…so what are you going to do about it. If they have caused harm, how are you going to correct it?
I remember that same problem about 30 or so years ago in Arkansas. A prominent surveyor in the state going into areas outside his normal locale and simply found some fence posts and went 1320’s from it.
It happens here also, someone from outside the area will send a crew to do work at a lower price to start some kind of price war. I rather see them lose money than participate.
carry on..
A wake of destruction,,the endless dialogue
> continues this scenario that never cease here on the forum.
75% of the posts do tend to be about the same dozen topics or so.
My suggestion: The top twelve gripes are listed in a FAQ. Then all a poster has to write is "You know what ticks me off? Number 8". Like field to finish coding it's quick and efficient.
the endless dialogue
It does have a familiar ring to it Robert.
Maybe I'm just getting old, or maybe my "givashidder" is just worn out. But some surveyors are gonna do stoopit stuff, no matter where they are. And as long as I don't step in it, I've got other things to worry about.
On the brighter side, if we are still finding little piles of poop from careless crews, then we're still looking at it in the right light. I really fear the day I won't be able to identify their crap when I find it...:pinch:
A wake of destruction,,the endless dialogue
I don't think the problem has anything to do with price or who might be available locally to provide the service needed. It has much more to do with corporations and government units guided by the principle that surveying is a simple, yet necessary, evil in accomplishing what they ultimately wish to achieve. They contract routinely with XYZ MegaSurvey Firm to do a wide variety of chores for them. Those who make the big bucks at XYZ never leave home. They simply sign off on whatever is provided to them by the roving field crews (one man or more). The goal of the one-and-done guys is radically different from that of the established local provider. This may be because the local provider is attempting to assemble a reliable network of data for future work. It may be because the local provider has much to lose if he gains a reputation locally for shoddy work. It may be any one of fifty other reasons to make an effort to do proper research prior to ever arriving at the site, then do proper searching for control monuments in accordance with State standards. The one-and-done crowd appears to have no respect for how their work product may create problems for adjoiners and others in abutting sections. They will not take the time to learn what they need to know by researching the decades of surveys on record that are guideposts to the standards that have been set forward. The number one error is in not contacting some local surveyors to assist them in doing it correctly. A minor expense in the big scheme of things.
We had an oil and gas firm come into the area several years ago to begin what qualifies as major exploration for this region. They contracted with a local firm for survey work for about a year or so. Then they stopped having anything surveyed. They needed to save money to send to the investors. They began writing all sorts of descriptions for easements and various purchases that might appear to have been prepared by surveyors, but no surveyors were involved. Fiction is what they were. We have found too many cases where the actual pipeline is nowhere near what the easement says. The typical landowner is too greedy or ignorant to worry about the details so long as they get some quick cash.
A large interstate pipeline is being constructed through several counties in this area. I raised a question about their sloppy procedures on this board a couple of months ago. Again, the urgency to get paperwork kicked out was far more important than following even the most basic minimum standards, such as having two control points on a section line before writing a description claiming to follow said line between those necessary control points.
A couple of months ago on this board I mentioned finding a worthless piece of iron purported to be a quarter section corner set by one of those kinds of crews that follow the goal of finding any two points of control then straight line and proportion between them, no matter how crazy the results may be or how many miles apart those control points might be. This corner was about 95 feet northeast of where it should have been.
The problem is with the client's ignorance, initially. The long term problem is repairing the damage done to everyone else.
A wake of destruction,,the endless dialogue
well.. if you are going to cite the work of pipeline or O&G crews that changes the situation entirely.
These crews historically are unfettered from the constraints of standards of care, local practice and also the controls of Minimum Technical Standards (MTS) of states.
I know that LA had a hard time trying to get them to comply with MTS.
This is a totally different class of surveying from the usual boundary determinations of a PLS. It always has been. Yes, it is to place XYZ as fast and furious as possible by nomadic crews that rove from motel to motel, and from state to state. I worked with a great rodman many years ago whose father was a pipeline surveyor way back when and he grew up as a kid on the road with him. His stories were fascinating about his youth.
Also, I talked to someone recently who was an old pipeline surveyor who told me that he bought a horse ranch in another state and was going to survey it himself with an old POS transit and handheld GPS. He asked me for advice and I told him to hire a surveyor. I am sure that he did not take my advice.
Few years ago, I was doing some geodetic work in SW LA. At the motel in a small town, a pipeline survey crew checked in. They took about 8 rooms and one room they immediately converted into brain central. Put all the beds in the corners, brought tables in for work space, covered all the walls with maps and plats. They worked dark to dark, BBQed in the parking lot. Yes, they were like a travelling band of gypsy surveyors. You have heard the stories hear from Deral et al about their pipeline days.
If you are trying to get changes made to their practice, you need to get a pretty strong lobby together to do so. Other than that, you can gripe here to the cows come home.
That was Good Robert!
We already of one of the cows here. Old Holy Cow, hangs around to ruminate, and chew stuff.
Surveyors, we dig our own graves.
N
