Even $600 for a 3 acre survey is a joke. I would find a way to get rid of her 1 or 2 surveys a year. Tell her you stopped doing boundary work for stuck up, poor paying snobs.
Your big client probably feels the same way as I do about her, how can you not. She is really a very very small time real estate agent and how ever you let yourself get into this situation I don't know. You tried to explain it, but why so cheap she is not paying for the surveys. Your really giving her 1 or 2 clients a year a cheap in to sue you and hold you liably for a $300 survey.
uuugggghhhhh
You should make it clear that this is a $XX service ($2,000, $5,000?) but you are only charging enough to cover the salary of your help, or the overhead (or whatever your $300 logic is based on). They should appreciate and brag on you, but they should be made aware that the professional boundary surveyor does not overcharge by thousands of dollars.
That is the case with the "tv" surveyor as well. "Hey, you let me do the survey and I will not charge to be a part of the program." What shouldn't have happened is that the flip that house show is implying to everyone learning about flipping houses that they can get property surveyed for $200.
For the record I am not angry about your language in your first post. I am only trying to point out the disservice you may be providing to the profession as a whole. Boundary surveying has a lot of liability and responsibility that affects the owners and neighbors for a long time to come if it is incorrect.
> Simple question. If you aren't making a profit at $300, then why are you doing them at all? I don't get it. What is the "benefit" that you are getting from this?
I think what he is implying is that it is a relationship building situation and the profit from the survey itself is not the true aim. The true aim is to build a relationship with a guy that provides 500k in gross revenue annually. His connection to the realtor helps to cement the big picture.
To that end, I agree with the true aim, however I am not so sure that I would go about it the same way, whatever works is what you should do so who am I to tell the guy what he should charge, he can pay her for the job for all I care.
Now....what type of client is providing 500k annually to surveyor these days? Seriously..what is the general description??
I end up doing surveys at times that are underpriced (or free); family, for the soccer association, for some other charity-but a realtor? Even if it was my own sister I would have to draw the line at a realtor.;-)
And yes, there are surveyors with 500k a year clients. But that just means your expenses rise along with the revenue. Energy, large construction, engineering firms that don't want to have surveyors on staff .... those clients are out there.
But I have to say I'm the opposite: I enjoy the boundary and detest the construction.
Geez, Genes real name must be Jay Cutler the way some of you are throwing him under the bus. Are you all on twitter saying bad things about him?
I don't get what the problem is in what he is doing. If he is doing a good job, he can charge $10 if he wants. I have a problem when someone does about half the work they should do, and charge less.
David
Amen.
I've got no problem with his business model at all. Sometimes sarcasm just won’t come through.
Good will is an important factor in a business. Have your business appraised and see how much it counts towards the value. If helping out a friend keeps your 500k per year client happy then…why not?
For me it’s best to have some rules about who gets help. Habitat for Humanity, the local charities, close relative, and put a list in the company handbook. But a drinking buddy of a crew chief-NO!
“I will only guess that in Florida all of the surveyors sit around holding hands and think of ways to make each other look good to the public. I guess I can also assume you dont believe in providing favors for profitable clients.”
As Andy implied, why not simply subcontract another Surveyor who specializes in those types of surveys? Even if the subcontractor charged your organization 1K you would surely be able to absorb the cost. Especially since your proclaimed revenue from this client is 500K.
As to Florida Surveyor’s, we don’t sit around and hold hands with one another, if that’s what you do then that’s your business.
Just as a footnote, you should utilize a spell checker on your correspondence.
Gene
I agree Gene. the part that made me bristle is that the courtesy is for a realtor *barf* - folks who already tend to treat surveyors like doormats. In some regards, discounting your work w/ her could be seen to contribute or perpetuate that ongoing perception. It doesn't sound like she provides any quid-pro-quo to you in this (nor do you seem to want or even need it)...just that its good relations w/ someone who is close to the client's wife, so i get that. who the hell am I to say yay or nay on your practices? :beer:
$300 Lot Survey>Suggestion
Always bill 'full price' and then give whatever discount you want. Never create the impression that a 'professional work product' is cheap.
Prostitutes have many 'good' reasons for their 'work product'.
Richard Schaut
$300 Lot Survey>Suggestion
> What we do, if we reduce a fee, is note the invoice as if it was a "normal" project and then show a "professional discount" for particular clients...... Such as an engineer that we do a ton of work with has to have a plan done for his house; $6,000, professional discount $2,500, total due $3,500.....
Great idea!
I know a Surveyor that mostly does Construction Staking and would take on these little boundary jobs as a favor to his million dollar construction contractor client for cheap or even free.
That's great for him I guess but kind of devalues boundary surveying as a whole, particularly for the Surveyors that try to make a living at it. I understand his rationale but still don't really care for it. It gives the idea that boundary is no big deal, just a quickie thing you can do as a favor for someone. Well sometimes it is a big deal and there may even be no easy or clear cut answer without participation from the property owners involved.
So what if while you are out there doing a favor you find a big conflict? Now what? The client thinks this is just a little thing, easy, no biggie, quickie-dickie (like throwing up a little spackle on the wall when the studs are 90% gone with dry rot).
Does the commercial drywall contractor do a "favor" for his favorite customer who has a little crack at his house? Sure that's nothing, I'll just throw up some spackle on it. So he gets over there and pushes on the wall with his putty knife and UH OH the drywall just moved 2" because there is nothing behind it???
Dave, I am sorry but what you describe is practice by someone who does not know what in the hell they are doing. They have no grasp of what is involved and they have been lucky so far to not have caused serious problems. THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW IF A SURVEY FOR A BOUNDARY IS MORE OR LESS COMPLEX IS TO ACTUALLY DO THE JOB!!!!!
Otherwise why both to survey or license land surveyors, just pass out garmins with every deed.
Measruement is only evidence to be used in conjunction with other evidence. Sometimes that other evidences defeats your measurements, but how would you know this, if you do not understand that your just is FIRST to collect evidence and then FORM your opinion.
Dane
exactly.
I mean suppose a Dentist does all root canals (forget what they call those, oral surgeon?). Do they do the occasional filling as a favor to a friend's friend's wife? I kind of doubt it. The favor they probably do is to refer the patient to a Dentist that can examine the tooth, determine if a filling is needed and then do the filling.
But we still have a lot of good old boy technicians in our midst.
I'm not perfect; I blundered doing a favor for a co-worker right after I got my license but I try to learn from my mistakes. Favors make me uncomfortable because I know what I got sucked into. Luckily it was a large rural lot and it didn't hurt anything. After that, no more favors and it is almost never easy. I did a couple of pro-bono jobs for Habitat that I spent a lot of hours on, field, research and office because the lots they get all seem to be trouble.
Dave
I don't know why dentists would not be like anybody else and do favors for friends and family. If the dentist does only root canals and forgot how to fill a tooth, hopefully he/she will not do the filling and screw it up. Otherwise, if a close friend or relative needs a filling and the dentist can save them a bunch of money, who's stopping them from doing it? I suppose the other local dentists could get their panties wadded up but that's life in the big city.
Dane
Bigger engineering companies do something similar all the time. They'll seriously underbid the survey part of a project just so they can get their foot in the door for the engineering part. I don't know how many times I have seen that happen.
Dave
I did something for my wife's brother a couple of years ago but at least I knew what I was doing. I told her to work out the deal with her brother and I would do the necessary work.
I know this is a common business practice; it is human nature to like getting something supposedly for free. Retailers do this kind of thing all the time, buy 1 get 1 free, etc.
Usually the practice involves doing something for the actual client, not a distant connection from the client but occasionally it is a relative of the client. Client says "call my Surveyor, he'll take care of you."
Dane
On the other hand a former co-worker worked for one of the huge engineering firms running the survey operation in his particular office. He said the engineers kept subbing out the surveying work so that he was always scrambling to keep his people busy. It didn't often occur to the engineers that they could keep the surveying work in-house.
I've been asked to provide a quote from a repeat client for construction staking on a parcel that's pretty well defined record-boundary-wise but I suspect the property lines are going to be in some people's backyards a few feet. (Sorry, Richard, it happens). The first thing they want to do is build the perimeter masonry walls and I am going to tell them I'm not going to stake those things in the neighbors' yards without performing a full-blown recorded survey. They might squawk but compared to the cost of this Vietnamese Community Center project, it'll be a drop in the bucket and if some surveyor does it without a legally recorded survey, he/she could end up in a world of hurt.
Dave
Pro bono is an entirely different matter. As a professional, you are willing to forgo your payment and you are repared to deal with the surveying issues no matter how complex or simple.
Funny thing about fillings is that under clinical testing they cannot get two dentists to agree on what teeth need filing.