Does anyone have a good technique for doing F2F field coding that does not require a lot of sketching in the field book? I have done F2F coding before, but usually it required me to make a basic sketch of the figures or chains that I was shooting so that I could record the names of the individual figures or chains to keep them all straight.
The Bow Tie Surveyor
> ..... usually it required me to make a basic sketch of the figures or chains that I was shooting .....
Well, all of them that I know of. I've used at least 5 different F2F systems in my time, the first in 1993. We did some sketching of line numbers with that first system (wildsoft). But since 1997 I haven't made a sketch topo for linework purposes.
Of those I've used the best has to be Carlson's. Inroads also works well for that. LDT manages to get the job done.
Discipline.
The biggest item is that your field codes separate your features.
Second cover your project in order even if it takes more steps.
You can have TC anywhere in the file and the software connects the dots in point order.
Starting along your street frontage do BC, TC, FS, BS, GR (bottom/top of curb, front/back of sidewalk, ground till you get into the parking lot, then add some GA/GG (grade asphalt/grade gravel) then your building corners, etc then back into the street. Come back to get your indepedent curb islands.
The biggest problem, will BC = Bottom of Curb or Building Corner?
CB/CC/CH/CS works best for Corner Building, Concrete, House, Shed.
I set up my first FTF in 1992 or so, Carlson, the crew got the hang of it quickly. I convinced the boss the best way to set up FTF codes was to buy a couple of pizzas and engineers, surveyors, draftsmen and field crews all sat down together. Only minor tweaking after that.
Paul in PA
>
> The biggest problem, will BC = Bottom of Curb or Building Corner?
>
> Paul in PA
I've never heard of using "BC" for a gutter shot. Most everyone around this region uses "GUT" or "G" for gutter. "BC" is what I use for "back of curb".
"Building Corner" is either "BLDG" or "BLD".
I've drawn very very few sketches in the past 4 or 5 years. This has been possible mostly because the data collectors I've used draw the linework in real time in the field (I think most of them do this now). If I miscode something, I see the mistake instantly, i.e. "that line didn't connect the way it was supposed to".
I use Carlson data collection and Carlson on the PC. The codes are set up identically on the PC and DC. The f2f execution is practically identical.
When I developed my codes, I looked at our field books and used coding that resembled the abbreviations we'd been using for years, with some modifications from time to time.
Paul's recommendation about walking out a feature, even if it requires more walking is a good one. It's not essential, but can be helpful to walk out each breakline rather than cross section.
I'm not familiar with distinguishing front of sidewalk and back of sidewalk. I use a code labeled "EPC" (Edge of Pavement - Concrete) for all concrete lines. This is set up to draw separate 2D and 3D lines (2D for planimetrics, 3D for TIN breaklines). Regarding curb gutters, if the curbing is consistent, I'll use offsets from the back of curb (horizontal and vertical) to establish the gutter breakline. This is done with the "OH" and "OV" action codes.
Carlson's DC f2f lets you also code for point symbols, which is pretty helpful in distinguishing what points are even with the point no. and description layers turned off.
Another plus to Carlson is that it allows you to draw things you can't easily code with CAD like features. Because of this, I've not really needed to "sketch" anything. I just draw it in "CAD" right on the spot.
MicroSurvey allows the same kind of functionality as well. Presently, I think these two platforms offer the best f2f capabilities on the market.
> Does anyone have a good technique for doing F2F field coding that does not require a lot of sketching in the field book?
I suppose a lot depends on how your F2F works, but I never make a sketch. I'll sometimes make a keel mark or tie a piece of flagging where I start or stop a feature, but mostly I rely on memory. My memory isn't very good, so I rarely keep more than 2 similar features (e.g. EP1 and EP2) going simultaneously. I've had as many as 4 going at once (two adjacent paved features), but that usually requires more editing in the office due to coding mixups.
As Paul indicated, progressing using regular sections is great if the job lends itself to it, though many of my topos are in densely-built environments that don't lend themselves to that approach.
I never use a sketch, and I never leave the ground covered with pink paint dots, or even one pink paint dot. If you work methodically, which is also working efficiently, you don't need them.
Use code and descriptor names that make the meaning obvious, like B for begin, E for end, TC for top of curb, GUT for gutter, EP for edge of pavement, HC for handicapped symbol. I use a lot of double letters because coding them is faster, but even then the descriptors hint at the real names: PP for power pole, FF for face of curb, BB for back of curb, SS for sidewalks. When I'm walking the sidewalk I use SS on the left, and SS1 on the right.
Use a standard methodology. When I have a large parking lot I start on one end and concentrate on the stripes and curb islands. Next come the parking lights, cart returns, and any utilities. Next the street walks and curbs.
Always code, think, and work logically.
Dropbox File (Private or Invalid)
Shawn Billings
is a rock star at this. Follow his procedure.
> Does anyone have a good technique for doing F2F field coding that does not require a lot of sketching in the field book? I have done F2F coding before, but usually it required me to make a basic sketch of the figures or chains that I was shooting so that I could record the names of the individual figures or chains to keep them all straight.
>
> The Bow Tie Surveyor
we don't sketch very often either. f2f takes some getting used to; learning tricks or workarounds, etc. our biggest problem is making the field firmware/controller and cadd jive with one another. in other words, i need what i need in the field, but there are other items i have to keep in mind to satisfy the cadd as well.
cadds are different, controllers and field firmware are different across manufacturers. go out, try to do it one way, and adjust your techniques to suit.
one thing i miss is the'jnp' draw command. join to nearest point, super handy, but we don't have that on our existing controller
Does anyone use the data collector map view to keep their linework coding straight? I have a TDS recon and have a difficult time with the small screen (in direct sunlight, even more difficult). Some data collectors have larger screens (but not that much larger, unless you are using a tablet), but I am not sure if it would be much better.
> I've drawn very very few sketches in the past 4 or 5 years. This has been possible mostly because the data collectors I've used draw the linework in real time in the field (I think most of them do this now). If I miscode something, I see the mistake instantly, i.e. "that line didn't connect the way it was supposed to".
>
> I use Carlson data collection and Carlson on the PC. The codes are set up identically on the PC and DC. The f2f execution is practically identical.
>
> When I developed my codes, I looked at our field books and used coding that resembled the abbreviations we'd been using for years, with some modifications from time to time.
>
> Paul's recommendation about walking out a feature, even if it requires more walking is a good one. It's not essential, but can be helpful to walk out each breakline rather than cross section.
>
> I'm not familiar with distinguishing front of sidewalk and back of sidewalk. I use a code labeled "EPC" (Edge of Pavement - Concrete) for all concrete lines. This is set up to draw separate 2D and 3D lines (2D for planimetrics, 3D for TIN breaklines). Regarding curb gutters, if the curbing is consistent, I'll use offsets from the back of curb (horizontal and vertical) to establish the gutter breakline. This is done with the "OH" and "OV" action codes.
>
> Carlson's DC f2f lets you also code for point symbols, which is pretty helpful in distinguishing what points are even with the point no. and description layers turned off.
>
> Another plus to Carlson is that it allows you to draw things you can't easily code with CAD like features. Because of this, I've not really needed to "sketch" anything. I just draw it in "CAD" right on the spot.
>
> MicroSurvey allows the same kind of functionality as well. Presently, I think these two platforms offer the best f2f capabilities on the market.
It kind of sounds like you do the field survey like you would draw it in CAD (one feature at a time). I guess that way you would only have to know 1 or 2 chains that you are running at a time (but would require more walking around). I have typically worked in cross section format, but with that you can easily have a dozen chains going at one time (for a divided highway even more). That's a lot to keep in your head.
Field To Finish can be your most powerful tool available.
It takes some planning to get the most out of it. FIRST you need an iron clad and workable descriptor code list. Then you need to start off easy and learn the code for "Begin" and "End" for your line work. In Carlson the default is +7 and -7. Then learn JPN (join point number) and CLO (close). Just those 4 codes will work wonders for you.
Once you have that down pat, you can learn how to create line work and symbology on the fly with multi-code descriptors and the joys of an EA1 and EA2, etc. system. There are tons of tricks in Carlson that can GREATLY cut down production costs and increase profits.
BUT, even with all of this, the Office guys will bless you for the occasional sketch. You are on site looking at the feature, the Cad Monkey back in the office is not. Sketches with point numbers and a north arrow are a God-send for them.
one 'mnemonic' for large cross section work is to use figure, say sidewalk 1 at the nearest to the centerline of road, sidewalk 2 on the next one outward, etc. but youre right, you have to keep your head right. dont make it more difficult than you can handle. and remember, sometimes $%it happens. figure it out and fix it, then keep on getting up
BC/TC And FS/BS
Bottom of Curb and Top of Curb
A particular string is drawn sequentially. For a site plan it is easy to follow the curb up the street, around the parking lot, back to the street then down he other side of the street. If the curb becomes a simple edge of pavement, the code is BC/EP and the string transitions to follow sequential EPs. The bottom of curb is shot at the street side and the top of curb is shot away from the street. Learned this very on to prevent topo lines from crossing.
Front of Sidewalk and Back of Sidewalk Is important to maintain sequential strings when the sidewalk is separated from the curb by a planting strip. It is not critical if the sidewalk abuts the curb. If you are not taking notes you need to expand the sidewalk code for FSA, FSB, FSC, FSF, FSG, FSP, FSS for asphalt, brick, concrete, flagstone, granite, pavers and slate.
The point of F2F is to greatly reduce the drafting time. including a lot of special notes in your point descriptions does not do that, having expanded descriptions with minimal typing does. In my estimation I can type a few letters much faster than scrolling through a table.
Paul in PA
Hi,
we moved from sketches to F2F some 10 years ago, nowadays we only sketch details of underground constructions. Pictures and even setting the camera in video mode helps a lot when processing in the office. (& don't forget the us of Google Streetview) Very handy for street & traffic signs, road markings, ...
In Belgium we're forced to standard layers, our CAD files are used for input in the Flemish GIS system. In each layer goes only one code. The coding we're forced to is not set up for different kinds of pavement, instead it has a functional classification.
So we code the axe of the road then gutter, cycle trail, sidewalk, zone for vulnerable road users. our line codes are mostly 2 characters, sometimes more. Everything Road related starts with R; RA Road Axe - RC Cyclepath - RS Sidewalk - RV vulner ...
All Fence types starts with an F, Building related with a B, ...
All lines on the left side of the road have odd numbers, Right side has even numbers.
most point symbols starts with a p and have 3 ore more characters. PTF = Point Tree Fruit and PTFS for a small tree. Different utility poles PUW for water, PUG gas, ... All occupations start with an O. This approach has been working very well for us, even the new-bees can adapt and memorize them well.
We have one golden rule: the one who did the field work will process the raw linework and check the the breaklines.
We all do this without the use of a view on the linework in the field, our DC does not speak the linework codes of our Geopus-Cad engine ... but that has not been a problem.
We use the map with only points and the field codes on the display if something went wrong.
There's already a lot of good advice.
Start to know what codes your CAD software will understand, build a small codelist to start and play with it. Check your drawings back in the field in the beginning. And we could not do it without our dc's with full keyboard.
Chr.
A section can be any combination of shots and is set up using a sequence. You can have an urban section with back of sidewalk, front of sidewalk, top of curb bottom of curb, all with one code. So you don't need to remember the different simultaneous line threads . . just one. It can be as simple as a two shot, top and bottom of curb or as varied as a full urban section, all with one code that defines a custom sequence. Just have to remember not to miss a shot or add one extra section shot. You can branch off and pick up a pole or manhole and then jump back on with your sections. Works great.
BC/TC And FS/BS
Not to belabor the point, but I always thought that it was easier to use "BC" for back of curb, instead of "TC" for top of curb. I'd always ask the question to those that use "TC", where on the top of curb are you shooting? The answer is, the back of the curb, hence the code, IMHO, should be "BC".
BC/TC And FS/BS
How about "TBC" ?? Then you can use a template offset of your 3Dpoly breakline for the gutter and then add a shot for "EA" and your contours work just fine. 2 shots and you are done.
Then You Could Rightly Shoot The Front And Back Of Curb
at the same elevation.
The whole point of F2F is to have cryptic yet unambiguous labels. I guess B has too many interpretations Back, Base, Bottom, Building.
Since BB and TB (Bottom of Bank and Top of Bank) are also quite common I will stick with BC/TC. BW/TW (Base and Top of Wall), I also use quite often.
F2F is pretty much like skinning a cat, everyone has their druthers.
Paul in PA