not my real name, post: 401454, member: 8199 wrote: It can solve trigonometric functions with out the need to convert the angular measurements to some obscure mathematical notation that nobody except high school algebra students use.
Certain functions in Carlson Survey force the units control to Radians; and it was written by Surveyors...
not my real name, post: 401454, member: 8199 wrote: Forget my software analogy then... Everything is a "tool" these days and some are better than others.
Software like excel that has been around since 1985 and begs continuous upgrades and updates does not impress me when it still lacks basic functionality that can be found in a cheap calculator.
My calculator that cost $10.00 can easily convert from decimal degrees to degrees, minutes and seconds. It can solve trigonometric functions with out the need to convert the angular measurements to some obscure mathematical notation that nobody except high school algebra students use.
That is what I would expect from an update... some improved and practical functionality. The current functionality of the excel software is basically the same as when it was first written.
I can work around the limitations, and basically if you are not an accountant you will need to work around these frustrations.
You made your point that you do not like it. What other point or tidbit of knowledge have you made?
Robert Hill, post: 401458, member: 378 wrote: You made your point that you do not like it. What other point or tidbit of knowledge have you made?
I'll bet you drive through puddles just so you can splash someone on the sidewalk.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
People that refer to radians as "some obscure mathematical notation that nobody except high school algebra students use" doesn't fully grasp the significance and usefulness of dividing a circle into 2 pi even divisions which is of course to determine arc length of a curve of a given radius and central angle. Just because you don't see the significance of this conversion does not mean that it's not there. Flip open one of those old field books and take a gander at the formulas for circular curve solutions, notice how many times you see 180/pi and or pi/180 that is when the conversion from degrees to radians and back is taking place.
Randy Rain, post: 401482, member: 35 wrote: People that refer to radians as "some obscure mathematical notation that nobody except high school algebra students use" doesn't fully grasp the significance and usefulness of dividing a circle into 2 pi even divisions which is of course to determine arc length of a curve of a given radius and central angle. Just because you don't see the significance of this conversion does not mean that it's not there. Flip open one of those old field books and take a gander at the formulas for circular curve solutions, notice how many times you see 180/pi and or pi/180 that is when the conversion from degrees to radians and back is taking place.
You people have such an exaggerated sense of self worth that is completely annoying. Please tell me that you use radians to measure angles while you are surveying and that will demonstrate it's practical value to me. Don't make claims that I don't understand something just to satisfy your desire to be a bully. If you are so complacent that you cannot see a need for continuous improvement for software instead of continuous upgrades with no practical improvements then have fun with it.
So tell me that your survey instrument is using radians or Carlson uses radians.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
I don't quite understand why so many are defending hard-to-work-with software. Software writers tend to act as though they are the "boss" and you need to learn to use their tool. While there is some truth to that, the reverse is more true. The better software writers can learn the thought-process of the user, and the more user-friendly they can make the software, the better. And once they get as big as excel (or AutoCAD, or Word) they listen to their customers less, in my opinion.
I find some good use for excel, and it's cool how it works, but I tend to think it would be much nicer if they could make it easy to convert from decimal feet to feet-inches-fractional inches. and from decimal degrees to degrees, minutes, and seconds. It would help users like me.
That guy (sorry, I don't know his or her real name) has some good points.
I like Excel, but I agree that you would think simple conversions would be part of a program like that. There have been several times that I've intuitively thought Excel should do something easily only to find that it either wasn't easy or wasn't possible using simple commands.
I use it a lot, it's a powerful tool. And I had a situation about six months ago where Ladd's spreadsheet would have come in very handy, I appreciate the share.
In the mid 1980s I used a program called D Base 3 to create DMD sheets.
I had managed to get the double value and had not been able to have it solve the complete process before I changed jobs.
Originally, I used the program as a search engine where I had entered all the field books, drawings, folders, Abstract Nos, acreages, Clients, and more into14 fields of information that made a cross reference to produce a printout of where all inhouse information was located for any particular area we might be working in by simply entering in a value that would be found in the 14 fields of information.
Excel an incredibly versatile accounting software for manipulating data in tabular form. It's so easily adaptable/customizable that it's very versatility becomes seen as a fault because people expect it to be able to do whatever they want.
Excel is Excel; It's not the fault of the software engineers at Microsoft designing Excel that it's not Mathcad.
I seldom use Excel anymore except for converting state plane coordinates to project datum, and vice-versa. Very handy for that.
The only superior evidence is that which you haven't yet found.
James Fleming, post: 401509, member: 136 wrote: Excel is Excel; It's not the fault of the software engineers at Microsoft designing Excel that it's not Mathcad.
Excel is excel? Come on. It's a software. It didn't just come into being. It is a product of the design engineers. The design engineers are inventing something, and it was good. But that is no reason for not enhancing it for an even wider range of users. Hell, they could sell "modules" to different specialties (such as the scientific user, kind of like making a scientific calculator. In fact it is a calculator in a sense, and they could add some added functionality.
It's a good product, but if it doesn't work for some people, improving it would only help the software manufacturers.
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/members/not-my-real-name.8199/&apos ;">not my real name, software is written for a market. If there is a desire to build something that is widely used, you build for them. If you see a niche market you want to address, build for them.
I have not used Excel for maybe 5 or 10 years. However I use other Spreadsheet Software almost daily, it is a number cruncher.
You don't need to buy Excel if you don't want to, there are numerous others that are free (zero cost)... I use Libre Office Calc because it is bundled with my OS, and it works great (able to read and write Excel files). There is a windows version too.
If you do a web search you can find templates and seed files to do most any number crunching task you like.
For the more obscure applications reach out and ask...
not my real name, post: 401475, member: 8199 wrote: I'll bet you drive through puddles just so you can splash someone on the sidewalk.
Thanks for that clever comment that has no relevance except to diminish the topic.
Everyone knows the limitations of Excel. You're not presenting or offering anything new.
But for data presentation and sharing, it is a solid program.
Many bells and whistles for the users of all ages and skill sets.
Everyone should have the knowledge to write simple conversion routines before they use a $10 calculator.
I have used Excel for many years for survey, business, and personal purposes.
I wonder how many treads/risers are in WTC1.
Hmmm maybe 2500 +-
I wonder what type of program could organize,present and share that data in the most practical way with ease.
I'm happy to hear that you don't have a real name so you don't have to suffer any embarrassment of your opaque posts.
not my real name, post: 401491, member: 8199 wrote: Please tell me that you use radians to measure angles while you are surveying
Take a look at how Europeans measure angles; I think you will be surprised.
Then take a look at the way WE measure angles...
- Take a circle and divide it 360 times; that's convenient...
- Now divide each one of those 60 times; now there's a number that we use every day...
- Now take one of those and divide it 60 more times; if it ain't broke, don't fix it; right?
The resistance to use the metric system, here in the United States, is ridiculous; right up there with Liberia and Myanmar.
Once the dinosaurs die off; we might see some semblance of reason...
Robert Hill, post: 401529, member: 378 wrote:
I'm happy to hear that you don't have a real name so you don't have to suffer any embarrassment of your opaque posts.
where is the Trollish conversion function?
not my real name, post: 401491, member: 8199 wrote: You people have such an exaggerated sense of self worth that is completely annoying.
This looks like a job for Excel
James Fleming, post: 401540, member: 136 wrote: This looks like a job for Excel
RADAR, post: 401532, member: 413 wrote: Take a look at how Europeans measure angles; I think you will be surprised.
Then take a look at the way WE measure angles...
- Take a circle and divide it 360 times; that's convenient...
- Now divide each one of those 60 times; now there's a number that we use every day...
- Now take one of those and divide it 60 more times; if it ain't broke, don't fix it; right?
- The resistance to use the metric system, here in the United States, is ridiculous; right up there with Liberia and Myanmar.
Once the dinosaurs die off; we might see some semblance of reason...
[SARCASM]We don't need no stinkin' metric system[/SARCASM]
I use Excel a lot. It amazes me when I talk to Surveyors that don't know how to use Excel or an alternative spreadsheet program. I think the roots of it is in accounting. It would be nice if it could convert DD to DMS and do functions in degrees; that can add a lot of complexity to a worksheet. I usually use non printing cells off to the right for intermediate steps in formulas just to simplify it enough so I don't need 15 levels of parentheses in a formula...easier to debug that way.
Sometimes I use it for a calculator especially for repetitive calculations. You know start a blank worksheet then do the calculation and copy and paste. Then I think I should save this so I put it in a folder named Excel Computations.
Dave Karoly, post: 401570, member: 94 wrote: I use Excel a lot. It amazes me when I talk to Surveyors that don't know how to use Excel or an alternative spreadsheet program. I think the roots of it is in accounting. It would be nice if it could convert DD to DMS and do functions in degrees; that can add a lot of complexity to a worksheet. I usually use non printing cells off to the right for intermediate steps in formulas just to simplify it enough so I don't need 15 levels of parentheses in a formula...easier to debug that way.
Sometimes I use it for a calculator especially for repetitive calculations. You know start a blank worksheet then do the calculation and copy and paste. Then I think I should save this so I put it in a folder named Excel Computations.
In case anyone isn't aware. You can install custom functions. I posted decimal to dms ones here with instructions. Similar ones have also been posted before by others.
Haven't seen one for doing trig in degrees but it would be very easy.
Main problem is that your sheets won't work unless you have the custom functions installed and so are not portable.
I needed them for converting Starnet sets of angles to direction sets. Starnet will not accept decimal degrees.