....with construction geometry that looks like this gibberish:
There is only one explanation:
Don't know about the 'line table', but the 'curve table' works with decimal degrees. Must be a button pusher somewhere, that doesn't know whats up or down.
> ....with construction geometry that looks like this gibberish:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There is only one explanation:
>
>
Well, the deltas in the curve table appear to be correct, they just happen to be in decimal degrees.
Swear at the engineer who built the curve table, and then draw the curves using the radius and delta.
Let me guess... DOT project?
Maybe they're smoking all those bananas when they should be eating them, silly CAD monkeys anyway
Nope, a private apartment complex.
The really annoying thing is that on the previous project with the same designers we had exactly the same trash. They fixed it when we snivelled....but apparently they learned exactly nothing.
By the way, I understand that the deltas are in decimal degrees. First of all, that ain't kosher. Second of all, iffn you use units like that, they should be called out as such - AND they should be given to at least 3 decimal places.
forgive them, for they know not what they do. but call and raise hell about it!
What kind of instrument do you use that can measure to a hundredth of a second at any distance let alone at those distances? Decimal degrees is not a problem other than they should be noted as such. Be a closer match if seconds were to whole seconds and distances shown to thousandths.
jud
significant figures
The Bearings in the line table are all listed to the hundredth of a second.
1' = 1/60 degree
1" = 1/3600 degree
.01" = 1/360,000 degree = 2.8 x 10^-6 = 0.0000028
Decimal deltas should be listed to the fifth place with the error estimate of +/- about 1/3 of the sixth place.
Working from the curve table angles, you have the second place. If the error is 20" (0.01' per 100') then the decimal should be listed to the second place plus or minus about 1/2 of the third place for all lines about 100' in length.
Alternatively, the results could be published to the 6th / 3rd place respectively, but the error estimate should be called as you cannot rely upon these final places to the full amount if they are published.
To the nearest 1/100th of a second in 15.43 feet. It doesn't matter what color the CH is, it will be too wide for this project.
> Nope, a private apartment complex.
>
> The really annoying thing is that on the previous project with the same designers we had exactly the same trash. They fixed it when we snivelled....but apparently they learned exactly nothing.
>
> By the way, I understand that the deltas are in decimal degrees. First of all, that ain't kosher. Second of all, iffn you use units like that, they should be called out as such - AND they should be given to at least 3 decimal places.
Comical.
I have seen only one project slightly worse. Somebody got their units cranked around wrong and sent something with the bearing to 2 decimal places, but then only had distances to the nearest tenth. I really had to ask who was running the place.
Preferably... for easy math, I'd take distances to 3 decimal places, bearings to the nearest second and curves to 3 decimal places if the radius isn't an even foot. I'm not saying we can measure that tight, but it sure helps to speed up calc'ing things when there is like a 0.008' misclose or something like that.
Project/real world coordinates to at least 3 decimal places too.
Compared a bunch of CADD techs like that, us brush apes are looking pretty dang fine....;-)
The ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY for the plans looking and being labeled as they are lies with the ENGINEER. Or doesn't anyone check work anymore? No quality control, No training... Just here do this and no instructions...
Everyone on down the line is at fault for letting plans get out labeled incorrectly...
Yep, I agree.
But in defense of the engineer, he needs to rely on his drafter/designer to take a concept and turn it into a buildable design.
Again, I agree that the checking process is awful, but a semi-decent design drafter should be able to stay awake long enough to turn out something better the drivel I see these days. I started out nearly 40 years ago as an engineering drafter and I would have been fired back then for turning out the rubbish I see nowadays.
Checking for contructability and buildability seems to have gone the way of the dodo....
...although the dodo is certainly here in spirit, eh?!
True, however in recent years I have seen the practice of putting the cheapest, least trained, most inexperienced people in a Drafters position. The justification for this is in most cases "You just push buttons and it happens..."
PS
...and in defense of the engineers, I see equally bad rubbish on plats from surveyors.
It certainly goes back to CAD monkeys, but with all of the woofy tools around nowadays, there is just about zero excuse for some of the bad drafting on our side of the pond.
PS
Not making excuses. I've experienced a recent project where a "Summer Intern" was given all of the drafting with no training or supervision. Who's to blame for that? The Project Manager, that's who.... 🙂
PS
Ok, since this funny thread has morphed into plan bashing and how they get that way, why not include the people that actually APPROVE that crap and issue permits. They're often bigger monkeys that those banana eatin' button pushers.
I just finished up staking a fast food place. Typical small crowded site, islands, curvy drive through window drive, 2 entrances, yadda yadda. There was not a single radius dimension shown on the entire plan. Luckily they gave me the CAD file and between the curb contractor, site superintendent, and resourceful surveyor - we made it all work. At least the grading was pretty good, as was the reported contol.
Bearings to 1/100 of a second, and deltas to 1/100 of a degree ...
I have to agree generally with slim and wayne. The Engineer or the Surveyor is taking responsibility for their plans. They need to hire and make sure the CAD draftsman gets them what they need. They need to tell the draftsman their expectations. If they hire a good CAD Monkey, the CAD technician can provide them exactly the values and the significant digits they want, and do it quickly and efficiently. Who's stamping the dang drawings anyway? Once the draftsman understands the engineer's or surveyor's needs the engineer can start to rely on him or her to make the right product without micromanagement.
I have to blame the professional on this one.
