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tidal cyles

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spledeus
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Anyone have a good reference so i can direct a client / angry abutter / CAVE woman to learn about the tides. (CAVE = Citizen Against Virtually Anything)

I have depicted MHW based on the NOAA Co-Ops data, the station is in the same embayment so it is as good as the almost outdated data. The abutter has observed higher tides and referenced global warming in her opposition of a proposed boathouse.

I can send her links to NOAA Co-Ops but it would be more appropriate to send her to a website meant for children. I am only grateful that she chose to oppose the project based on 'science' of which I have a good understanding.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 10:26 am
DeletedUser
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Did you try Wiki?
I would think that they would have a good article.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 10:37 am
a-harris
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Some will use most any reason to keep their neighbors from building something that results in blocking their view.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 10:51 am
BigE
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Buy her a one-way ticket to Sumatra and wait by the beach and see what happens.
I believe the survivors (although few) of the tsunami in 2010 might have something to say about tidal activity.
Granted that wasn't the norm nor was that a simple neep tide but sometimes it takes absurdity to illustrate the absurd.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 11:20 am
spledeus
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this woman owns a lighthouse on a beach
they are observing high tides up to the property line
higher than any they have noticed in the past 60 years...

we are on the high side of the epoch


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 11:29 am

DeletedUser
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tsunamis have nothing to do with tides.
check your science on that.
It is a common misnomer to call them tidal waves.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 11:30 am
Williwaw
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Unless the lady has established a tidal gage and kept years of records, her observations are nearly worthless because tides are extremely complex and when combined with a storm surge can extend far above their predicted height. But I get the feeling she is probably the type who doesn't really care much for facts that get in her way.


Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : November 20, 2014 11:44 am
BigE
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Yes I know that. Cut me some slack.
I was illustrating absurdity by being absurd.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 11:53 am
foggyidea
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tell her to come see me 🙂


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 11:58 am
DeletedUser
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see reply below
not trying to pull your chain or anything like that.
Al I am saying is that one should not underestimate the intelligence of the public in certain matters without complete history of the matter.
More absurd is calling someone absurd who may have local knowledge.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 12:56 pm

DeletedUser
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I don’t know why surveyors, engineers, gov’t agencies et al discount the knowledge of a layperson in certain matters. I dare say it may be some sort of professional elitism.
I have spoken this mantra before. Why would you underestimate the local knowledge of someone and dare to imply that they haven’t intelligence to have an opinion.
I don’t know all the facts about this encounter that Spledus posts. I don’t know the extent of this women’s knowledge. Did Sandy have an effect in the area? Sandy was surely a freaky storm to happen and look what it did to certain coastline areas.
Geez, I have seen storm modeling go awry and local datum completely inaccurate.
I will share that once a local panel that I was member of once dealt with critical areas/wetland issues regarding development for conservation and planning purposes. Local agencies and developers were seeking fewer restrictions in certain areas based on known data. In one particular area, a citizen came forward to offer his local knowledge of the area. His family had owned land for 125 years in the area. He was not educated but he knew from his family exactly how high the water would get in various types of storm activity. He was a nice creole gentleman and I went and met with him. He showed me the history of the land. He later presented his knowledge at a meeting to gov’t agencies and local engineers etc. They ignored his knowledge. It was big mistake.
Conservationists are a strange breed is all that I can say.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 1:26 pm
thebionicman
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I tend to agree that discounting a person simply for their lack of certifications or formal education is a mistake. On the flip side, when someone states things that are blatantly incorrect it's time to look for information elsewhere. When they reveal an obvious agenda I will take everything they say with a grain of salt.
With weather and water marks, locals nearly always exaggerate. If what someone is saying flies in the face of hard evidence I politely end our conversation. They do get the chance to prove themselves full of crap before being dismissed...


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 1:55 pm
foggyidea
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I had that argument, onsite, with my clients, who didn't like where I staked the Mean High Water line. They would not understand "still water, average over 19years." I kept hearing, "..but I've seen the water up to here!"

This was on a west facing beach with prevailing southwesterly winds. And about 1 mile of tidal flats, at low tide, and a 10' tidal range.

I think what spledeus (or Thadd as I like to call him) is really talking about is that no amount of education on the neighbors behalf is going to calm her opposition. No matter what is said, or what she learns, she'll be angry and upset.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 1:59 pm
imaudigger
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We have used testimony from long time land owners to establish historical flows when dealing with the flood studies.

If an old guy tells you the water was 1" from flooding his house during the flood of record, you have to use that information perhaps as best available.

Tidal studies are another beast.


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 2:23 pm
spledeus
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You hit the nail on the head, Don. She knows some things but not everything.

This is a quick plot of the predicted tides for the estuary over all of 2014. Green line is MHW, Red is MLW. We are seeing higher high tides that are 1.2' over the MHW elevation. (This is a draft)


 
Posted : November 20, 2014 3:23 pm

Williwaw
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Does this represent Exhibit A of sea levels rising as predicted with a warming climate?


Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : November 21, 2014 11:22 am