Sad.
you know who isn't required to know the color of a yellow bellied sap suckers tail feathers?
Every single board certified physician whom when taking their boards is really required and expected to know the world's compendium of the medical field and especially their own field specifically.
Allowing us to be used for test 'testing' and just trying to misdirect or confuse us with things(yes, dendrology is tied to the forest service and they have surveyors etc..) is a degradation to the profession IMHO.?ÿ?ÿ
I don't expect to get 100 percent, but this test is to show minimum competency at a 70 percent pass grade, not the world's complete knowledge base of the field.
And yeah, I'm going into it with a chip on shoulder because I want to get 71 percent just in case.
30 plus years ago, when I took the EIT exam, I had been out of school for 10 or more years so I knew I was going to fail the first attempt but would take it so I would know what I needed to brush up on.?ÿ I didn't even study for the exam because there was no pressure.?ÿ It was a completely "Multiple Guess" and "True False" exam.?ÿ I guess well.?ÿ I made a 71 on the exam.
Andy
Evaluating and recording evidence often requires a deeper than average knowledge of a variety of subjects. Dendrology is no exception. The question in the OP is absolutely appropriate for a minimum competence exam.
So what's your answer? This is a stupid question, I don't want to answer it?
If you spent as much time complaining about the question, as you could've, figuring out the answer, you could just move on.
Knowledge is never a bad thing, Good or Bad...
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Born and raised in the Appalachian forests (and my dad a Penn State forestry grad), but practicing only in Alaska, the knowledge of dendrology required is apples and oranges.?ÿ The FS is a nationwide test, don't be surprised to find important elements of practice from another locale on there.?ÿ Tree identification is often very important and requires a much larger library of knowledge in the East than out West.?ÿ It's really not that esoteric; heaven forbid you have to know more than one thing ????.?ÿ Our FS and PS exams are dumbed down enough as it is.
The question seems to be where do you draw the line when it comes to expectations of minimum competence.?ÿ IDing plants??ÿ I'd probably rather hire an arborist or botanist and rely on their expertise than throw my weak understanding at the problem and hope for the best.
I don't recall having any plant questions on my exams actually, but I do remember getting what I thought was a really, really obscure question about business insurance.?ÿ That one annoyed me pretty bad because I thought 1.) most surveyors probably don't run their own business, and 2.) even if they did it seemed like yet another question that would be best answered by an expert in some other field-- accountant, insurance agent, or lawyer.
@peter-lothian Wish I could like that post more than once.
Also, much work is undertaken by volunteer licensees to aid in exam development.?ÿ I would just about wager that there are some board participants who have donated many of their valuable hours to help with such endeavors.
but I do remember getting what I thought was a really, really obscure question about business insurance.?ÿ That one annoyed me pretty bad because I thought 1.) most surveyors probably don't run their own business, and 2.) even if they did it seemed like yet another question that would be best answered by an expert in some other field-- accountant, insurance agent, or lawyer.
Strongly disagree.?ÿ For most of my 20-year career, I have had to care about and have a working knowledge of insurance types and be able to communicate that to others.?ÿ I have been on both sides of the ball--public and private sector--and it matters that surveyors are properly insured.?ÿ Occasionally you'll have to explain to a client the difference between bonding and?ÿ professional liability insurance, and why surveyors don't post a performance bond.?ÿ You'll need to protect your clients,?ÿ company, and equipment by carrying professional liability, general liability, commercial auto, inland marine (for equipment), and workers' compensation insurance.
I have had about as stereotypical a survey career as one might imagine so far, and insurance has mattered almost from the start.?ÿ I don't know why we act like we should only be tested on solving horizontal curves and where to put the excess when resurveying a subdivision block.
It must be a regional or type of work thing.?ÿ I can not imagine a week going by during which I don't have to be able to identify a tree (not just by saying the leaves are alternate or the bark is woody).?ÿ I wouldn't want to have to call a professional botanist in on almost every job just to identify a couple of trees.
I seem to recall a question about stone types when I took the exam.?ÿ Since that is also a fairly common monument it seemed appropriate to me.
As to business questions, that concern might be based on practice area as well.?ÿ In the 12 counties nearest to me, I'm reasonably sure that the majority of licensees run their own company with a smaller number working for either a government agency or an engineering company.
Like I say it seemed quite obscure to me.?ÿ If it was something about plain old commercial vehicle insurance or something then that might be more reasonable, but from what I remember the terminology was (and still is) completely foreign to me.?ÿ I wish I could remember it...
Needing to ID a plant on any given day??ÿ Yeah, that's not so hard to imagine, but insurance questions seemed like quite a stretch to me.?ÿ Maybe we should be expected to be able to rebuild a V8 engine too since many of us use trucks in this line of work...
Maybe we should be expected to be able to rebuild a V8 engine too since many of us use trucks in this line of work...
Those folks Peter referenced as well as the many volunteers I mentioned spend a good deal of time working with even more licensees seeking input into what knowledge needs to be tested.?ÿ Boards will often seek input from the professional society in their state (which in turn ask their members).?ÿ The exam content is always being refined.?ÿ As new tech comes on line and a new knowledge bases develop, questions are added (i.e. GPS, scanning, LiDAR, etc...).?ÿ As some items go out of required knowledge (i.e. FORTRAN coding - seems like a question or two was on either the EIT or SIT exam way back), they'll get removed.
Since tree ID and business insurance are still a part of the exam, there are obviously enough licensees who deal with those topics frequently enough to see them as a need to know.?ÿ If it comes to the point that we have to rebuild an engine or explain how to open an inward right swing door with lever handle, I'll be on board with the complaints about exam content.?ÿ But as far as I can tell the exam covers material that is applicable to the wide range of potential professional knowledge bases that might be needed.?ÿ Does that mean every licensee does the exact same work - nope.?ÿ But the exams aren't specifically developed to test to become a Professional Land Surveyor retracing only recently platted 1/2 to 3/4 acre subdivision lots in cities with a population between 200K-250K, an average yearly temp of 71 degrees, and yearly rainfall of 50 inches.?ÿ As others have stated it is a national test that covers practitioners who will have a very varied level of interaction with the many areas of knowledge tested.
one more time...
the FS....IS TO SHOW ONLY MINIMAL COMPETENCY.
The PLS and state specific can address the regional and even finer grains of sand.
@jitterboogie Are you really contending that the FS exam is too difficult??ÿ I mean, come on...
My PS exam (Dec 2016) had a question regarding the meaning of the acronym LEED.
Does anyone find this relevant to the practice of land surveying?
When I prepared to sit for the California Land Surveyor-in-Training exam in about 1985 (long before any National exams - now is the FS), mentors provided me with materials to study and problems to solve. When I opened the test booklet, the very first question was "Dendrology is important to surveyors because" (multiple choice). I thought I got the wrong test (multiple exams going on at the same facility). Fortunately, I knew the answer because I had dated a Forestry major in college and she was taking dendrology at the time. So if this is a dumb question for the FS, which I don't think it is, it has been around for close to 40 years.
@spmpls?ÿ
let's make becoming a USFS certified Sawyer part of the license.?ÿ seems to fit where people want the job to go.
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Nope.
unless you're an architect or a designer engineer. No one cares when we're staking grid bolts or dipping manholes.
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I think I've got a decent handle on what the FS exam is for.?ÿ I dare say possibly even at least as much as you.?ÿ One more time, it is a national exam and perhaps the countless professionals (not an evil cartel of psychologist trying to do some mind tricks to you) who have developed the exam over many years are aware of what is minimally needed in terms of a broad range of locations and specific practice areas.
In case you are not aware (and your response to me makes it appear so), the PPS exam is also a national exam which will have to cover a broad range of expertise that just perhaps you do not believe to be appropriate to your surveying career.?ÿ But, those other areas of knowledge in that exam may just apply for some of the other people besides you who are taking the same nation wide exam when you have to take it.
absolutely not.?ÿ I'm only making a point of irrelevant information and the intentional misdirection applied to the test when all we're doing is showing minimum competency.
that's all.
Not trying to lower the bar.?ÿ
But, be that as it may, this career field is dying. just look at the numbers.
@david-kendall Since there are surveyors who will go on to work within the building industry alongside folks who are heavily into getting LEED certification for buildings, I wouldn't consider that to be an outlandish question on the PPS exam.?ÿ Just a part of doing business with other professions - being somewhat versed in their language.
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Now if they had asked you to write out a variety of items that would gain points towards LEED Silver certification, that would be a different matter.