FS exam questions

Licensure is state-specific. I highly doubt that you can take a test anywhere with a math-only degree. Yes you have a much higher math education than a surveyor ever needs,, but what is misunderstood, it isn't a strictly math-based profession. So, you generally need education in Survey (but in some states you don't) and you need experience. To the educated engineer or mathematician who has never worked in surveying your first inclination is that the surveyor simply applies Trigonometry, and measures in the field and most work has a 1+1=2 solution. After working in the field for some time, you start to realize that you apply more legal principles and evaluation of evidence more than math (In boundary surveying anyway). Of course if you look @ construction staking, there is more "applied" math than boundary work. (You need boundary work to work toward a license. but you could potentially do construction staking without a license and be more lucrative)

I don't know how you get a path in, except to apply and discuss your desire to work outside and your extensive math background. You could get in through CAD drafting and/or as a new crew member on a survey crew. Some employers might be attracted to your math background.

Howdy, glad you have found and joined the site. :beer:
From my understanding, you will need certain education requirements in Surveying classes that are different from state to state to quality to take the tests.
You are well on your way there with your existing education and are in line to find employment with a land surveyor to being the next stage of fulfilling the requirements.
Don't throw in the towel quickly if this is your desire to be a Surveyor.
Personally in the last few years two candidates with BA Degrees have come to me to mentor them thru the last 34hrs of college Surveying courses and working time required to enter the state testing arena and gave up because they felt it was beneath them to be a probe for a few years and learn everything from the ground up.
Bottom line, there is no shortcut to take, actual employment and education are part of the process.
It is a phase of this profession everyone that is a Licensed Surveyor has humbled themselves and endured the transformation necessary to prepare a person for a job they will love every day for the rest of their life.
Search for your State BOR for Surveying and there will be information to tell you the specifics of the requirements.
good luck.........

What state are you currently in? Someone from that state will be able to provide you the specifics of the locale.

Additionally, welcome:beer:.

A student with 4 year degree in Surveying from ABET accredited program is eligible to take the FS.

Sounds like you don't have this.

While many states encourage an ABET degree, I think most (all?) will except non ABET degrees, and some dont require a degree at all.

What state do you want to be licenced in? Every state is different.

If you really love math you will be dissapointed in surveying. Ive used linear algebra once or twice, and calculus a couple of times. I dont think most surveyors have even done that much. While you need to be compentent in math to be a surveyor, you dont need to know very much of it.

I thought my physics degree and math minor would help me too, but I would have been just as succesfull with what I learned in high school.

There is a lot you need to learn, only a very small part is math.

Janer,
Welcome. As has been pointed out, requirements vary widely by State. Some places will let you add experience to your current education and others will demand a 4 year degree. If you want it you can find a path.
Much of what we do will seem pretty simple math wise. There are some areas where your degree will make you shine. Again, if you want it you can weave it in the package and press on.
Good luck, Tom

As stated repeatedly above, we really need to know a state to be able to answer the requirements question. With that said, you already have the degree so you'll be able to pick up only the classes you need to meet the requirements.

As for getting your foot in the door..... I have NEVER run across a more diverse group of people than I have in surveying. Hell, my background is nuclear engineering, lol. I think you will find that your desire to get outside and do what needs to be done without (too much) complaint will be what pushes you ahead of others. Most surveyors are too picky about your background, but if you come across as one who wants no part of what field crews encounter then you will find it hard to get the entry level position you need. And that leads to another point; don't expect your degree to put you ahead of anyone else. It may well do so down the line, but not at the entry level. Get your foot in however necessary and if the work is in your wheelhouse the rest will take care of itself.

From the NC Board site, regarding he FS exam:

(b) Land Surveyor Applicant. - The evaluation of a land surveyor applicant's qualifications shall involve a consideration of the applicant's education, technical, and land surveying experience, exhibits of land surveying projects with which the applicant has been associated, and recommendations by references. The land surveyor applicant's qualifications may be reviewed at an interview if the Board determines it necessary. Educational credit for institute courses, correspondence courses, or other courses shall be determined by the Board.
The following shall be considered as minimum evidence satisfactory to the Board that the applicant is qualified for licensure as a professional land surveyor:
(1) To be certified as a land surveyor intern, an applicant shall (i) pass the fundamentals of land surveying examination and make application to the Board, (ii) be of good character and reputation, (iii) submit three character references to the Board, one of whom is a professional land surveyor, (iv) comply with the requirements of this Chapter, and (v) satisfy one of the following requirements related to education and experience:
a. Be a graduate of a surveying curriculum of four years or more or other equivalent curriculum in surveying approved by the Board.
b. Have rightful possession of an associate degree in surveying technology approved by the Board, a record satisfactory to the Board of four years of progressive practical experience, two years of which shall have been under a practicing professional land surveyor, and have satisfactorily passed a written and oral examination as required by the Board.
c. Have graduated from high school or completed a high school equivalency certificate with a record satisfactory to the Board of 10 years of progressive, practical experience, six years of which shall have been under a practicing licensed land surveyor, and have satisfactorily passed any oral and written examinations required by the Board.

Good thing, you do not need an ABET degree. What is equivalent? is a good question. Considering the alternatives and your existing education, I suggest you consider the first path as the shortest. Either attend a school or do it online. The freshman sophomore years are low on surveying detail and technically one can apply to take the FS in some jurisdictions after the second year of college. You should be able to get the typical freshman sophomore level of survey credits in one year, apply directly to NCEES for the FS and having passed, your field survey experience starts to count. That way you can find out if you truly like it prior to the junior senior level of intense survey courses. Having a degree in some cases means you do no actually need a survey degree, just an equivalent number of survey credits.

North Carolina A & T requires 36 core credits, so that is your final goal.

You can get 24 credits at Asheville-Buncombe or 25 at Central Piedmont, either of which should qualify you to sit for the FS and may be more than enough for the PS in some jurisdictions. So think about not just what you want to do, but also where you want to do it.

Also to be considered would be a Masters degree in Surveying/Engineering Geomatics.

Paul in PA

Experience counts and there's no degree equivalent to the school of hard knox! As others have said, you may have to start at the bottom rung, but prove yourself useful on your feet and you'll have a career. Also, until you have said experience, most surveyors will have difficulty taking you seriously. But if you love the work it will come.

Yeah, as far as taking the PS exam, each state has their own rulebook. Some require a four year degree in geomatics, some experience and most boards want to see both. Again, you can "choose" your own path to licensure within your state's licensure requirements, but you will likely be happier with your career path with experience. If your desire is to enjoy surveying the outdoors, then you'll need to do just that. If you would rather be a manager and just tell others how and when to survey (not to mention budgets and paper-pushing) then push to get your license with very little field experience. It's up to you...

Janer, post: 362478, member: 11435 wrote: 2. I am actively trying to get a job in the surveying field (I would love to get into hydrographic surveying) yet without a survey specific background it has obviously been very hard to find a company willing to go out on a limb and hire me. Does anyone have advice on getting a foot in the door of the surveying field without a background in surveying?

It's about finding the right company and the right guy doing the hiring. My instincts tell me that bigger companies are more willing to take a flyer on someone with a more unconventional background, just because they can economically handle staff turnover better. We just hired an entry level guy with a BS in Geography; if he decides this career isn't for him a couple of months down the road, we lose one of a dozen field crew members. A company with only one or two field crews is going to be in a bigger bind and is less likely to hire someone without any background (either education or experience) in surveying.

There are a lot of surveyors who put a lot of value in the school of hard knocks. There are, conversely, a lot of surveyors who agree with Newman:

If then a practical end must be assigned to a University course, I say it is that of training good members of society... It is the education which gives a man a clear, conscious view of their own opinions and judgements, a truth in developing them, an eloquence in expressing them, and a force in urging them. It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought to detect what is sophistical and to discard what is irrelevant.‰Û
‰Û¥ John Henry Newman, The Idea of a University

So, if you think it may be for you, keep looking. Like WGD said above, if you can imagine an odd educational & experience background, you can find a surveyor that fits it. I believe Mike Shepp, who posts here occasionally, has a degree in applied mathematics; he's been named the West Virginia Society of Professional Surveyors Surveyor of the Year twice. So it's not an unheard of, or off the wall, background for a surveyor.

Paul in PA, post: 362543, member: 236 wrote: From the NC Board site, regarding he FS exam:

(b) Land Surveyor Applicant. - The evaluation of a land surveyor applicant's qualifications shall involve a consideration of the applicant's education, technical, and land surveying experience, exhibits of land surveying projects with which the applicant has been associated, and recommendations by references. The land surveyor applicant's qualifications may be reviewed at an interview if the Board determines it necessary. Educational credit for institute courses, correspondence courses, or other courses shall be determined by the Board.
The following shall be considered as minimum evidence satisfactory to the Board that the applicant is qualified for licensure as a professional land surveyor:
(1) To be certified as a land surveyor intern, an applicant shall (i) pass the fundamentals of land surveying examination and make application to the Board, (ii) be of good character and reputation, (iii) submit three character references to the Board, one of whom is a professional land surveyor, (iv) comply with the requirements of this Chapter, and (v) satisfy one of the following requirements related to education and experience:
a. Be a graduate of a surveying curriculum of four years or more or other equivalent curriculum in surveying approved by the Board.
b. Have rightful possession of an associate degree in surveying technology approved by the Board, a record satisfactory to the Board of four years of progressive practical experience, two years of which shall have been under a practicing professional land surveyor, and have satisfactorily passed a written and oral examination as required by the Board.
c. Have graduated from high school or completed a high school equivalency certificate with a record satisfactory to the Board of 10 years of progressive, practical experience, six years of which shall have been under a practicing licensed land surveyor, and have satisfactorily passed any oral and written examinations required by the Board.

Good thing, you do not need an ABET degree. What is equivalent? is a good question. Considering the alternatives and your existing education, I suggest you consider the first path as the shortest. Either attend a school or do it online. The freshman sophomore years are low on surveying detail and technically one can apply to take the FS in some jurisdictions after the second year of college. You should be able to get the typical freshman sophomore level of survey credits in one year, apply directly to NCEES for the FS and having passed, your field survey experience starts to count. That way you can find out if you truly like it prior to the junior senior level of intense survey courses. Having a degree in some cases means you do no actually need a survey degree, just an equivalent number of survey credits.

North Carolina A & T requires 36 core credits, so that is your final goal.

You can get 24 credits at Asheville-Buncombe or 25 at Central Piedmont, either of which should qualify you to sit for the FS and may be more than enough for the PS in some jurisdictions. So think about not just what you want to do, but also where you want to do it.

Also to be considered would be a Masters degree in Surveying/Engineering Geomatics.

Paul in PA

I am located in the state of North Carolina in the Wilmington area. I am absolutely willing to start at the bottom rung here (as just about everyone has suggested is possibly the best route).
Even if I cannot take the FS exam quite yet, does anyone know anything about the Certified Survey Technician exam? I know that at level I I do not need any prior experience or education to take the exam. I am assuming passing this exam will have a positive impact on trying to get into a survey crew position, but I would love some insights. I began studying via learnCST about a week ago and hopefully have not been wasting my time...
I plan on walking into the office of a surveying/engineering firm in Wilmington, NC today to check on an application I completed for a Survey Rod Person. Does anyone have any tips to make this walk in as effective as possible for me?

By the way thanks for all of your replies. This forum has been the most helpful resource for info in the surveying field that I have yet found.

In Texas you can sit for the FS with your degree and with one year responsible charge in surveying.

Sec. 1071.253. SURVEYOR-IN-TRAINING CERTIFICATE. (a) An applicant for a surveyor-in-training certificate must:
(1) have earned a bachelor of science degree in surveying from an accredited institution of higher education;
(2) have:
(A) earned a bachelor's degree from an accredited institution of higher education that included at least 32 semester hours in a combination of courses acceptable to the board in:
(i) civil engineering;
(ii) land surveying;
(iii) mathematics;
(iv) photogrammetry;
(v) forestry;
(vi) land law; or
(vii) the physical sciences; and

(B) completed at least one year of experience acceptable to the board in delegated responsible charge as a subordinate to a registered professional land surveyor actively engaged in professional surveying;

Once you pass that exam it is 2 years responsible charge.

Sec. 1071.254. QUALIFICATIONS FOR REGISTRATION AS REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYOR.
(a) An applicant for registration as a registered professional land surveyor must:
(1) hold a certificate as a surveyor-in-training;
(2) have at least two years of experience satisfactory to the board as a surveyor-in-training in performing surveying in delegated responsible charge as a subordinate to a surveyor registered or licensed to engage in the practice of surveying in this state or in another state having registration or licensing requirements equivalent to the requirements of this state; and
(3) if the application is filed after January 1, 2003, have earned a bachelor's degree from an accredited institution of higher education that included at least 32 semester hours in a combination of courses acceptable to the board in:
(A) civil engineering;
(B) land surveying;
(C) mathematics;
(D) photogrammetry;
(E) forestry;
(F) land law; or
(G) the physical sciences.

I recently received a response to an email from the person in charge of student engineering/surveying applications for the NC Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors and it shed a lot of light on the issue. Here is the email:

"As for the FS exam, you may take the exam at any time you wish. There is no pre-requisite for taking it. The NC Board of Examiners no longer administers the exam and prior approval to take the exam is no longer required. NCEES administers the exam now and all registration is done through www.ncees.org/exams. Please visit their website for complete instructions.

Once you have passed the FS exam and wish to become certified as a Surveyor Intern (SI), you would then complete the application for certification ( http://www.ncbels.org/forms/ SurveyInternApp.pdf). At that time you will need to show your education/experience. The Board does not accept degrees other than surveying degrees, however, if your degree is of a certain caliber that could be equivalent to an AAS degree in Surveying Technology, they will accept it. That being said the acceptance is on a case by case basis depending on your course work.

Below are the education/experience requirements.
BS in Surveying - 0 experience for SI certification 2 (2) years experience for licensure
AAS in Surveying Technology - 4 (2) experience for SI certification 8 (2) years experience for licensure
High School or Equivalent - 10 (6) years for SI certification 16 (9) years for licensure
All experience must be of a progressive nature. Numbers in ( ) are the years of experience required under a PLS.

SI certification is optional and you DO NOT have to become certified to proceed with licensure unless your employer were to require it. Most employers just want to know that you have completed and passed the FS exam.

If your BS in Mathematics were to be judged as equivalent to an AAS degree in Surveying Technology, you would need 4 years of experience before you could apply for SI certification."

So taking the exam I learned does not have any prerequisites, but becoming certified as a Surveyor Intern does have prerequisites. But it looks like if I can pass the exam and show some surveying experience then, if I wanted to, I could successfully apply to become an SI.

Janer, post: 362478, member: 11435 wrote: Hello,
I have been doing a lot of research on becoming a licensed surveyor recently and am interested in pursuing a career in the field. I received a B.S. in Mathematics from The University of North Carolina at Wilmington in 2014 and am trying to figure out what I want to do with my life professionally.

You're in a great place to do some career research with a really great company, McKim and Creed, headquartered in Wilmington. Herb McKim would be a great contact for you and it's likely that he would spend some time with you discussing his company and career options. Who knows, you might get your first job right there, but, even if you don't, the contact would be very valuable.

Talk to your placement office about the best way to contact Herb. If it works, don't wear your normal UNCW attire to his office. Go to their web site, http://www.mckimcreed.com/about/history/ and get some insight into who they are and what they look for. I gave you the "about" link because that's where you should start. You should be very well informed about McKim and Creed before you ever make contact.

That math degree is extremely valuable, but you have to discover where its value lies for you. Don't forget about graduate school, computer systems development, actuarial science, clinical trials statistics (one of the world's largest clinical trials organizations is headquartered in Durham) and the many other options that might be available.
.
If I had it to do over again, I would have looked deeply at surveying, just for the reasons you mentioned. But value for me lay somewhere else and life has been good to me.

Get out there and find that brass ring.

I have no knowledge of any regulations in North Carolina, other than what I read here.

I would highly suggest that you work directly with the Board of the state that you want to become licensed in.

As for the FS exam, it has been almost 16 years since I took the exams for my first license. Each state afterwards was only the state specific. I seem to remember that a lot of the FS was math based, but there were also a lot of surveying related questions as well. I think you would need some survey related education to perform well on the exams.

I whole agree with the statements above about surveying be much more than a math profession. Math and geometry do play a big part in what we do, but there is much more to it than that. I have been surveying a little over 20 years, and I learn something new everyday, most of it non-math related.

I wish you the best of luck. We need bright, educated individuals in this profession. That education, in my humble opinion, needs to be well rounded, and know that while math is a big part, it is not the only things that controls what we do in the field.

Well, you can pay your money and apply bu may no pass.

FUNDAMENTALS OF SURVEYING (FS)
CBT EXAM SPECIFICATIONS
Effective Beginning with the January 2014 Examinations
•âá The FS exam is a computer-based test (CBT). It is closed book with an electronic reference.
•âá Examinees have 6 hours to complete the FS exam, which contains 110 multiple-choice questions. The 6-hour time also includes a tutorial and a break.
•âá The FS exam uses the US Customary System (USCS) of units.
Knowledge
Number of Questions

FUNDAMENTALS OF SURVEYING (FS)
CBT EXAM SPECIFICATIONS
Effective Beginning with the January 2014 Examinations
•âá The FS exam is a computer-based test (CBT). It is closed book with an electronic reference.
•âá Examinees have 6 hours to complete the FS exam, which contains 110 multiple-choice questions. The 6-hour time also includes a tutorial and a break.
•âá The FS exam uses the US Customary System (USCS) of units.
Knowledge Number of Questions

1. Mathematics 13‰ÛÒ20
A. Algebra, trigonometry, and basic geometry
B. Spherical trigonometry
C. Linear algebra and matrix theory
D. Analytic geometry and calculus

2. Basic Sciences 5‰ÛÒ8
A. Geology
B. Dendrology
C. Cartography
D. Environmental sciences

3. Spatial Data Acquisition and Reduction 6‰ÛÒ9
A. Vertical measurement
B. Distance measurement
C. Angle measurement
D. Unit conversions
E. Redundancy
F. Knowledge and utilization of instruments and methods
G. Understanding of historical methods and instruments

4. Survey Computations and Computer Applications 19‰ÛÒ29
A. Coordinate geometry
B. Traverse closure and adjustment
C. Area
D. Volume
E. Horizontal curves
F. Vertical curves
G. Spirals
H. Spreadsheets

5. Statistics and Adjustments 6‰ÛÒ9
A. Mean, median, mode
B. Variance, standard deviation
C. Error analysis
D. Least squares adjustment
E. Measurement and positional tolerance
F. Relative, network, and positional accuracy 2

6. Geodesy 5‰ÛÒ8
A. Basic theory
B. Satellite positioning
C. Gravity
D. Coordinate systems
E. Datums
F. Map projections

7. Boundary and Cadastral Survey Law 13‰ÛÒ20
A. Controlling elements
B. Gathering and identifying evidence
C. Records research
D. Legal descriptions
E. Case law
F. Riparian rights
G. Public land survey system
H. Metes and bounds
I. Simultaneously created parcels
J. Easements and encumbrances

8. Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing 4‰ÛÒ6
A. Interpretation and analysis
B. Project and flight planning
C. Quality control
D. Ground control
E. LiDAR

9. Survey Processes and Methods 11‰ÛÒ17
A. Land development‰ÛÓprinciples, standards, and regulations
B. Boundary location
C. Mapping, cartography, and topography
D. Construction
E. Riparian surveys
F. Route surveying
G. Control surveys

10. Geographic Information Systems (GIS) 5‰ÛÒ8
A. Feature collection and integration
B. Database concepts and design
C. Accuracy and use
D. Metadata

11. Graphical Communication and Mapping 6‰ÛÒ9
A. Plans and specifications
B. Contours and slopes
C. Scales
D. Planimetric features and symbols
E. Land forms
F. Digital terrain modeling and digital elevation modeling
G. Survey maps, plats, drawings, and reports 3

12. Professional Communication 4‰ÛÒ6
A. Oral
B. Written
C. Alternate forms of communication
D. Documentation and recordkeeping

13. Business Concepts 3‰ÛÒ5
A. Contracts
B. Liability and risk management
C. Financial practices
D. Leadership and management principles
E. Personnel management principles
F. Project planning and design
G. Ethics
H. Safety

Personally I suggest you have at least 16 survey credits and a business or real estate law course to go along with all your math skills.

The most recent pass rate for Fundamentals of Surveying (FS)
280 first time takers, 54%. 147 repeat takers, 25%

The pass rate for first time PZS takers is 80%. To hit an 80% rate for the FS, some of the retakers will retake it 3 times.

The majority of first time takers either have a degree or are in a degree program. Learning what is required for a CST helps, but CST does not cover all aspects of surveying.

Paul in PA