College Student needs your advice on FS/PS exams

Jason,
This sounds like quite the project. I will start you off with a word of caution.
Over the years I've noticed folks getting fast and loose with the Rules related to your request. Every one of us who has taken the national exams agreed not to disclose the contents of the test. While I don't see this as preventing your project, it does limit what you should include. Specific information on the questions (with credit given to the contributor) will not end well for somebody.
Best of luck, Tom

Thanks for reminding me i completely forgot about those agreements examiners have to comply with.

Hmm..it seems i need to reword my post a bit.

Congratulations, Jason, on making it to your final year at NJIT. I know from personal experience it's not easy. Tell Laramie I said hi!

> What advice would you have given yourself before you've taken the exams?
Try to relax leading up to the test(s), and make sure to start preparing well in advance so you won't have to do marathon study sessions at the end.
> What tips or suggestions do you wish someone else had told you before you took the exam?
I wish I realized the huge difference in the content on the exams. The Fundamentals Exam really only covers the technical questions and doesn't delve too deeply into boundary issues. The principles and practices exam does not focus heavily on mathematics and computations. I think I used the calculator 2-3 times only on that exam.
> what questions really stood out to you that you found very hard on the exam?
You and I are lucky in that we went to NJIT. The coursework and exam questions in college were far more difficult than anything you'll encounter on the exam. By nature of the testing situation they can't ask you something that will take 30 minutes to solve.
> what books did you study from? any recommendations?
The surveyor reference manual was useful as was the BLM manual. I think the thing I found most helpful was running through the practice exams at the beginning so I knew what areas to study the most. Then I re-evaluated closer to exam time to ensure I had covered any areas of knowledge where I was lacking.
> were you and A student or a B student and how did difficult did you find the exams?
The first time around in Civil Engineering school at a big university as a young kid I was a C to B student. Going to surveying school at night with a wife and baby at home I took it a little more seriously and was a B to A student.
> what are your study tips?
Don't feel like you have to cover huge amounts of material at once. Sometimes if you are working on one concept and you figure it out I find it's good to stop there for the day and let it sink in.
> anything you feel would help future Surveyors is well appreciated.
Don't think that once you pass the exam you know all you need to. I was still quite nervous when I had to start signing surveys shortly after the exam. That's why we have continuing education requirements. You never stop learning, and that is especially true in an industry where technology so rapidly changes the way the work is conducted.

Thanks a lot for your input Dan, i appreciate it. It's good to know that fellow NJIT grads like you are available for advice. And I'll let Dr. Potts know you said hi, ill be seeing him tomorrow actually.

great reply by the way, very helpful and exactly what i was looking for, i hope more people follow the same structure as you, if not its ok ill be glad i even get a few more responses.

Potts is letting you do that? He wouldn't let me do that last year... I ended up doing a real example of grid to ground coordinates.

Anyways, if you can do it, a former student in the program had done one, but it was HUGE and not the best study guide, more of a reference book (700+ pages is a lot to go through). The link is below:

https://web.njit.edu/surveying/Documents/EntMANUAL.pdf

I just took and passed the FS (I thought it was relatively easy), and one of the things I would have liked more when studying was more practice problems and definitions. I was a 3.0 student (would have been higher, but working 50 hours a week plus 9 credit hours isn't easy to do, especially during football season). The NCEES practice book was pretty good, but there are a ton of free resources out there, even a terrible app that had 200 questions on it.

edit: I think Potts didn't like me, a civil engineer, becoming a land surveyor as well, and didn't go easy on me. Honestly, I think all civils should be surveyors as well (or at least have some background) and vice versa... it helps understand the thought process during construction and what information is critical.

In the local study group I was a part of, some advice given is more attitude and structure of taking the test. In Texas, the test is given in two parts, a two hour Legal session and a six hour Analytical Session. The legal is fairly straightforward, needing to know rules and regulations. This information comes directly from the board. It is a lot of information, but you would be surprised how much you retain for the exam.

The Analytical session is given as 15-20 sheets stapled together, being 3-5 problems and 40-60 questions relating to them. The first thing I was taught was to remove the staple and put the exam in a format that works for you. Order the deeds and put sketches together. Next READ THE ENTIRE EXAM!!! There are sometimes answers given as statements later in the exam that you would not need to solve for. They also will sometimes give more information than necessary. You do not need to waste time plotting deeds that do not help with the answer. Then make deed sketches and go from there. Just remember, you need to know the questions asked before you start working.

Just an opinion.

When you take the test give your self TIME. Tine to get to a strange address early or "check it out" before the test. Time for rush hour traffic. Time to park and pack-in (1 or 2 trips). Time to sleep the night before. 9:00PM to bed, one time in my life.
Bring a bag lunch and 2 quarts of OJ or sweet "brain food" drink. I enjoy seeing the test takers in a strange city trying to find some ware to get lunch then trying to get back (parking space and all) before the P.M. test starts. I have my lunch from the cooler in the car, then relax for 20 min. before going back for 4 hours more.

One trick that macks me feel in charge is to start the test on page 4 and when I reach the end I go back and do pages 1, 2 and 3. It is only one or 2 days so do every thing you can to make the test be the best part of the day, no distractions.

Well he hasnt said i couldnt do it. and wow 700 pages is just ridiculous. im focusing my manual more on the fs/ps exam material and trying to help people understand clearly what procedures to follow for whatever problem they have to solve. im glad you passed the fs exam, how long before (or after) njit graduation did you take it? and i agree, there should be common knowledge among surveyors and civils. thank you for your input i appreciate it.

thanks a lot your opinions are well appreciated. so about the legal information that comes directly from the board, are you referring to alta/ascm standards?

thank for the tips , i wouldnt wanna be someone rushing back and risk being late for the exam

Jason,

Not to be a smarty pants or anything, BUT...

> ...For my senior project Ive decided to create a review manual for the FS/PS...
>
> ...what im really looking for are tips or suggestions for these exams that one cannot simply gain from studying or reading it from a book...

Honestly, if you have been through 4 year surveying program EITHER: (1) any review book out there should already be sufficient or (2) the 4 year program failed.

I am a product of the 4 year surveying degree, and neither the fundamentals or national professional exam were overly difficult. The state specific may be a different story, depending on the state.

All the best test taking advice is more about how you take the test NOT the material. But you know how to take a test as proven by you approaching your degree.

Good luck, on the SR Project and more important the exam.

Thanks for the response. Im pretty sure i will do well for the FS/PS exams also, and i also agree that any review manual out there will already be sufficient enough to study from. i just chose to create my own review manual for these exams because i can kill two birds with one stone; studying for these exams and getting credits for it by creating a review manual for the NJ state specific, FS/PS. i could have done something more complex but i rather not add to the already heavy workload i have this semester.

My tip for the day?

Go to the beach the day before the exam and don't think about the material but have some fun and think about anything else but the material you'll be tested on. After four years of school, you'll either know the material, or you won't, so take the day off and relax. Your mind will be rested, relaxed and uncluttered the next day when you sit down to take the exams.

The questions that gave me the most grief were the ones that had no clear right answer. Save those for last and trust your intuition, don't second guess it.

That's all I got. Good luck.

We Are Not Going To Be Much help On The FS Exam...

...since it is now computer based.

At least 98% of us took the FS when it was a paper exam.

On the FS I would suggest taking a few paper exams before taking the NCEES online FS practice exam. The practice exam can be retaken but it is hard to tell how many of the questions would actually change, rather than being rearranged.

Next advice, do not plan on cramming within the last week before the exam. In fact taper off studying about a month before it. Having an education is the best preparation the rest is just getting your mind in order.

Again, we may be much in the calculator department. It is best to use the calculator a lot before the exam, that is if they are even allowing calculators.

For the PLS, the best practice is experience after the FS.

For the PLS exam calculator, again get very used to it. Use it in your daily work, even if, especially if, it requires extra keystrokes to what you normally use. My son bout an HP 35 just to take the PE exam a few years ago and was very happy to give it to me after he passed. Pretty much all his work is done on computers.

The key to the PLS is organizing your reference materials, but that to may be changing.

Your chosen goal appears to be to hit a moving target. For us the target remained fairly still.

Paul in P, PE, PLS

I am in the process of working on revamping our state's review workshop for the FS/PS exam.

One of my good friends is heavily involved in the NCEES process. He has told me that all of the tests are moving to computer based testing, and the reference materials are all provided. The NCEES reference materials are downloadable from their website.

I can tell you that the test is dramatically different than when I took it in the fall of 2000. It is definitely geared to the 4 year degree.

Know your calculator. That is going to be very helpful.

thanks for the advice, i completely agree. over the years ive learned that a calm and relaxed mind and body does way better than an uneasy and stressed one.

We Are Not Going To Be Much help On The FS Exam...

thanks, i definitely will take a few practice fs and ps exams. and i wont even dream about cramming for a test of this caliber lol, this is my career we're talking about not just math test. and thanks for bringing up the calculator issue, ill get one asap to become comfortable with it.

thanks a lot, and i do plan on getting a copy of those reference materials and using them on every practice exam i am going to take.