Not All Surveying Programs Are Equal
Scott has passed the CA State exam, which is very math intensive. I doubt that he needs more classroom time.
I'd prescribe a heavy dose of Brown, CA State Court of Appeals rulings, and SurveyorConnect
Consider the facts, Scott has passed the CA State exam, why would he need to study CA State Court of Appeals rulings?
Scott took a CA college program, which may have concentrated on CA surveying, take note that Scott has passed the CA State exam. If Santiago Canyon College covered CA surveying very well, it may have covered other aspects less well. Some programs amy be very state specific, because the push to create a program usually comes from surveyors within a state.
You doubt that he needs more classroom time, there are many states that disagree.
New Jersey requires 45 surveying credits, more than twice what Scott has. I know other states that require similar high numbers but I have not checked all thoroughly. I will do that this summer. More than 1/2 the states look for at least 30 credits.
Also as I previously stated some states allow only 3 failed tests per applicant. Some require only a reapplication and may only be looking for more and or better experience. Others specifically require the re-applicant to have obtained additional education, I will also study that further this summer.
Paul in PA
Let Us Talk Santiago Canyon College
> Scott has passed the CA State exam, which is very math intensive. I doubt that he needs more classroom time.
>
> I'd prescribe a a heavy dose of Brown, CA State Court of Appeals rulings, and SurveyorConnect.
Thanks Norman.
Wouldnt I need Court of Appeals ruling on a National Level?
Scott
Not All Surveying Programs Are Equal
> Scott has passed the CA State exam, which is very math intensive. I doubt that he needs more classroom time.
>
> I'd prescribe a heavy dose of Brown, CA State Court of Appeals rulings, and SurveyorConnect
>
>
> Consider the facts, Scott has passed the CA State exam, why would he need to study CA State Court of Appeals rulings?
>
> Scott took a CA college program, which may have concentrated on CA surveying, take note that Scott has passed the CA State exam. If Santiago Canyon College covered CA surveying very well, it may have covered other aspects less well. Some programs amy be very state specific, because the push to create a program usually comes from surveyors within a state.
>
> You doubt that he needs more classroom time, there are many states that disagree.
> New Jersey requires 45 surveying credits, more than twice what Scott has. I know other states that require similar high numbers but I have not checked all thoroughly. I will do that this summer. More than 1/2 the states look for at least 30 credits.
>
> Also as I previously stated some states allow only 3 failed tests per applicant. Some require only a reapplication and may only be looking for more and or better experience. Others specifically require the re-applicant to have obtained additional education, I will also study that further this summer.
>
> Paul in PA
I sure hope CA doesnt have the 3 fail tests attempt rule. I need to look into that.
Let Us Talk About A Different Approach
> @Scott Haggai
>
> I feel your pain. The current FS wasn't a walk in the park either. You study expecting honest straight forward surveying questions like "curvature makes reading higher or lower?" The current NCEES format for this same type question is "which type of wave represents a measure of 10^-4 mts?"
> I'm obviously exaggerating but the format as you said is broad and general, definitely makes you feel like you didn't prepare enough.
You nailed it! Thats exactly what I am talking about!
Scott
> Scott,
> Good vent and post:good: but rather than question the contents of the exam just use that as the reminder that your studies must be broad based and and extensive.B-)
>
> If you have passed the CA specific exam you definitely are on the right track and pretty close.:stakeout: That is a very well written, thorough exam that IMHO requires one to be a good test taker and well prepared. Im sorry you didn't pass the National this time but hopefully that can motivate you to go all "Good Will Hunting" :tv: on the materials to nail it next time.
>
> The national exam covers a lot of general material as you are well aware of but it has too. As Ric pointed out many National Agency requirements will be covered as well as surveying topics in general. Keep studying and Keep studying and no matter the outcome you will improve yourself in your goal for your PLS.
Thanks for the kind words Jered! 🙂
Not All Surveying Programs Are Equal
No, California doesn't have a limit on how many times you can sit for the exam. Some states do, with different criteria on how to proceed afterwards.
Let Us Talk Santiago Canyon College
> Survey/Mapping Sciences - Land Surveying Degree (11906)
> and Certificate of Achievement (21668)
>
> The associate degree and certificate program in Survey/Mapping provides the student a thorough background in land surveying and mapping in addition to an introduction to collection, manipulation, formatting and mapping of geospatial data. The successful graduate of this program will have the technical expertise necessary for an entry level position in the fields of Geographic Information Systems, Land Surveying, and Digital Photogrammetry. The program also assists those students preparing for the State Land Surveyor-In-Training and Land Surveyor’s Exams. The State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors will grant one year of experience credit for students completing an Associate Degree in Survey/Mapping Sciences.
>
> Requirements for the associate in science degree and certificate of achievement:
>
> Courses Units
>
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 118 Plane Surveying 4
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 119 Advanced Plane Surveying 4
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 205 Computer Aided Drafting Fundamentals for Surveyors 3
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 221 Advanced Problems in Surveying I 3
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 222 Advanced Problems in Surveying II 3
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 229 Legal Aspects of Land Surveying I 3
> Survey/Mapping Sciences 230 Legal Aspects of Land Surveying II 3
>
> TOTAL UNITS 23
>
>
> A good number of associate degree in surveying credits require 30 credits for graduation. The bold text above acknowledges that SCC considers their program a bit light. Generally the term PREPARES is used instead of ASSISTS.
>
>
> BELOW IS AN ABET ACCREDITED PROGRAM:
>
> Recommended Academic Plan for AEngT in Surveying Engineering Technology (2SRT) at Penn State Wilkes-Barre
>
> EDSGN 100 Introduction to Engineering Design 3
> SUR 111 Plane Surveying 4
> SUR 162 Methods in Large-Scale Mapping 3
> SUR 212 Route and Construction Surveying 4
> SUR 241 Survey Measurement Analysis 3
> SUR 222 Photogrammetry 3
> SUR 272 Cadastral Surveying 3
> SUR 262 Coordinate Systems in Map Projections 2
> SUR 313 Integrated Surveying 3
> SUR 362 Geospatial Information Engineering 3
> SUR 372W Legal Aspects of Land Surveying 3
> Total Surveying Credits: 31 plus the 3 engineering design credits.
>
> Paul in PA
Well looks like Santiago Canyon is clearly behind the times then. Theres a couple of classes from Penn State that look interesting.
Thanks Paul
Let Us Talk Santiago Canyon College
> Wouldn't I need Court of Appeals ruling on a National Level?
Sure. I think I'd comb through Brown and then seek out the rulings that Brown is referencing for background. I recommend reading cases because (sometimes) they explain the reasoning behind the rules, and because you can see how the principles were applied to real world situations. That should help you understand them better, and remember them at the crucial moment.
I've known a number of guys who came out of college very strong on the math concepts and a little light on the concepts of law, which is what I'm guessing is the case with you based on your testing history.
A heavy dose of Brown's 2 books is the medicine for that. And I recommend that you start with early editions of Brown (available from Alibris.com for very little money), because the later editions are quite different books from the earliest.
The national exam is multiple choice and with multiple choice you can often answer questions by eliminating the absurd options. The EPA question may have been such a one.
By now you must have an idea what areas are giving you trouble. Ask your questions here, you will get answers from the best.
Your Welcome Scott,
I have all my studies on disc, your welcome to review them, I can send you PDFs....just remember to look at them as a surveyor would review "a matter of public record"
rlshound@gmail.com
Paul
Penn State On Line Surveying Programs
http://wb.psu.edu/Academics/Degrees/surveyingcertificate.htm
Online Courses and Certificates
The surveying program offers seven courses that are completely online. The are SUR 241, SUR 341, SUR 441, SUR 351, SUR 441, SUR 455, and SUR 262.
The Penn State Surveying Engineering program offers two online certificate programs in surveying. They are Measurement Analysis and Least Squares Adjustments and Geodesy and GPS. Both certificates are offered completely on the web.
Each certificate program consists of three courses:
Measurement Analysis and Least Squares Adjustments
1.SUR 241 - Surveying Measurement Analysis
(access to surveying equipment required)
2.SUR 341 - Adjustment Computations
(access to a programing language required: C, Pascal, Fortran, or Basic)
3.SUR 441 - Data Analysis and Project Design
Geodesy and GPS 1.SUR 351 - Geodetic Models
2.SUR 441 - Data Analysis and Project Design
3.SUR 455 - Precise Positioning Systems
To take any of the courses listed above, you should apply with the nondegree application form and register for these courses at the Wilkes-Barre campus. The prerequisites for the classes are college-level calculus (MATH 140 & 141), statistics (STAT 401), and computer programming (CMPSC 201).
The costs of tuition and other charges can be viewed on the bursar's page at http://tuition.psu.edu/.
To learn more about taking these courses online, contact Dr. Chuck Ghilani at 570-675-9127.
Paul in PA
