Just A. Surveyor, post: 447318, member: 12855 wrote: Vast storehouse of inexhaustible useless knowledge.......Vast!
Mine is only half vast ...
Rankin_File, post: 447227, member: 101 wrote: /friendly banter on
I'm waiting for the magnificent seven to put out a report on tunnel/ mine surveying with the javad units.
"Our units get fixes from both sides of the globe at the same time!!!" /friendl
I was thinking of making a a pic, of my javad, under my van, under a transmission line....
But, i don't want trans fluid on it!
(grin)
Then, trimble needs a slogan "we accommodate flat earthers"
🙂
gschrock, post: 447389, member: 556 wrote: I think there is a misconception that various instruments and their respective software are not capable of working ECEF. GNSS by nature works in a global reference framework with observations then solutions as such and many implementations often store in the same reference framework as the constellation (e.g. Cartesian or lat/long plus ellipsoid height); it is in then, in the DC that you can pick what to project to/transform, etc. I have projects where my deliverable is WGS 84 lat/long, or ITRF... no problem at all in nearly every type of system used, and has been that way for decades.
The trimble (and others) does do ECEF. It is capeable.
But
It also allows a user to NOT KNOW whats going on, and a "flat earther" would be quite at home.
They "simplified" it, so much, that many users are ignorant of whats going on.
The javad is more transparent. You see whats going on. In fact, you have to know.
This actually has scared some folks off of it.
I prefer more transparency.
N
You forgot about gravity...
Nate The Surveyor, post: 447339, member: 291 wrote: Then, trimble needs a slogan "we accommodate flat earthers"
Most Trimble users are much too well educated too need that :cool::sob:
I wish.
I really do.
N
RADAR, post: 447401, member: 413 wrote: You forgot about gravity...
Good one Dougie!
Maybe that will be the next "add-on" (screw on) accessory for the Javad LS...an Absolute Gravimeter!
Loyal
Obviously, Trimble, like everyone else, uses ECEF for it's computations; anything else is a calculated value. Should you wish to work in a plant grid or other local system, there are multiple ways to do so, and when you perform a site calibration all of the parameters are available to be viewed, saved, etc. It helps to have TBC if you really want to tap into everything that Trimble GPS is capable of. If for some reason you need to see coordinates in more than one system in the data collector, it's very easily done.
gschrock, post: 447406, member: 556 wrote: have neither the time or need to bicker about matters of one-upmanship
Trimble isn't perfect - far from it - and I'll be the first to admit it. But most of the negative comments I see about them are exaggerations, misconceptions, or blatant falsehoods. I have trouble, knowing everything I do about the subject, just sitting by and letting that stuff go.
I've said it before... if the Javad hardware performs better than the R10, good for Javad users, I'm happy for them. My overall workflow and data needs are based on more than how well my GPS performs in a forest.
Not knowing how a particular data collector works, is more a reflection on the user...
I am now old enough, that i call a kid, to figure out my phone.
Tds tried to make a data collector, that was easy.
One of my local surveyors had been using tds for around 10 yrs, (one pt setup) he asked me why his brgs were "off", when he moved his base. I showed him convergency, and this was on my 1st day of ownership of rtk gps.
I'm all the time finding plats "basis of brg, Grid North via gps". Then, I tie into it, and no, it's geodetic north... Wherever their base was set up.
It's getting better. But "True North" and "ground coords" are both useful fictions... Not facts.
I wish we could get away from co mingling rectangular coords, with "true north".
It's all over the place.
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 447472, member: 291 wrote: Not knowing how a particular data collector works, is more a reflection on the user...
I am now old enough, that i call a kid, to figure out my phone.
Tds tried to make a data collector, that was easy.
One of my local surveyors had been using tds for around 10 yrs, (one pt setup) he asked me why his brgs were "off", when he moved his base. I showed him convergency, and this was on my 1st day of ownership of rtk gps.
I'm all the time finding plats "basis of brg, Grid North via gps". Then, I tie into it, and no, it's geodetic north... Wherever their base was set up.
It's getting better. But "True North" and "ground coords" are both useful fictions... Not facts.
I wish we could get away from co mingling rectangular coords, with "true north".
It's all over the place.
N
Nate; True North and ground coordinates are not fictions.
The way some surveyors apply them, they are! 🙂
Nate The Surveyor, post: 447491, member: 291 wrote: The way some surveyors apply them, they are! 🙂
Well Nate, the same can be said of State Plane (or UTM) Coordinates too!
If there is a way to screw anything up (and there always is), then someone will do it!
Loyal
Well, i should not have said it quite like that.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 447472, member: 291 wrote: But "True North" and "ground coords" are both useful fictions... Not facts.
They are close approximations.
I know a surveyor that only used true north... And moved his base all over. He'd just smile, and say "close enough".
It just wasn't easy to figure out his "theta for the day".
N
I've never been a fan of setting up a base and "localizing" to true north the way TDS used to train people to do. One of the reasons, along with top quality hardware, that I thought Leica (at the time) and later Trimble were vastly superior was because they both approached GPS from a geodetic standpoint, and if you were properly trained on either of them in the '90's you did get trained up on that aspect of it. IMHO, TDS adapted GPS to software that was written for flat earth surveying, whereas Leica and Trimble took GPS positioning and adapted it to land surveying. Diametrically opposite approaches.
Lee D,
There are thousands of plats out there, that were true north, ground scale at the base.
And the practitioner who did it, is not aware of "what happened".
TDS one point setup.
That's how they learned, and, that's STILL how the are doing it.
It will never integrate easily into a County Cadastre.
It's cumbersome.
It's the "flat earth" heritage we have from TDS. (albeit, based on spherical radial bearings!)
And, (apparently) Trimble has kept this mechanism alive...
So, these practitioners continue...
🙂
N
Nate The Surveyor, post: 447540, member: 291 wrote: And, (apparently) Trimble has kept this mechanism alive...
If by keeping it alive you mean they still sell Survey Pro, yeah, I guess so. But Survey Pro has changed drastically since Trimble started tweaking it. I don't like it and don't use it so I can't really comment on the specifics.
Trimble Access is nothing like SP, it's based on the Survey Controller software that has been around since the TSC1.
