> Things like police and fire protection should never be fee based.
Not sure, but I think this was a remote area without enough population to support an FD of its own. A FD from a neighboring jurisdiction was providing optional service.
> There are a lot of easier answers than to just watch it burn.
Maybe not so common back east but out west there are plenty of places, miles from the nearest town, without any kind of fire department protection. If you live 20 miles from the nearest hydrant and your place catches fire you are on your own.
Damn
I grew up in a small town with a volunteer fire department. I've NEVER heard such nonsense. Those "fireman" should all resign, they don't deserve the title. How do they know someone didn't run in there to save the pets? What is this world coming to? And for 75 dollars? WTF!!
They Could Have Charged The Insurance Company A Large Fee
Since the homeowner live in an area with no fire protection other than the Subscription service, it's highly probable that his insurance is requires him to be a subscriber, and it is just as probable to conclude that his insurance wont pay when they find out he hadn't paid his subscription fee.-
bottom line- we don't know all the facts-so we should probably withhold judgement on all parties, except the knuckle-head kid.
They Could Have Charged The Insurance Company A Large Fee
That's the way it works here in our county (AL). The VFD's are privately organized non-profits. We have a voluntary dues structure, if you don't pay the dues we bill you and your insurance for the response - in our district 3 VFD's will respond to a structure fire. But we don't check the list when the alarm goes out. Put the wet stuff on the red stuff and check the list later.
Rick
Hell ya! That's what we do.
Rick
The socialist's here have determined that fire protection benefits the general welfare. The local volunteers are funded through the local tax base.
They are great guys and couldn't stand by while a neighbors house burned.
Rick
I understand where you are coming from. I went door to door about 6 years ago trying to sell subscriptions for a very rural volunteer fire department. I was volunteering my time trying to help them keep the house open, had gotten to the point they couldn't justify fuel costs for training.
Out of probably 40 cold calls, I sold exactly 4 subscriptions. Today that area has no coverage, no volunteers, no trucks, and the nearest responder is 45 minutes away. Did I mention no trucks?
The subscriptions I was selling were 2500 a year, and several folks had the same reaction, like what were they going to do, stand by and watch my house burn? I told them yes, that is exactly what they will do and they were just as indignant as many here.
Infrastructure is not cheap, and when you have a small community with no commercial sponsors, those left get what they can pay for, and not a stinkin' thing else.
This town is about 45 minutes away from me.
Everyone is giving South Fulton flak for not putting out the fire.
Well guess what. Fulton, KY didn't come to put out the fire. (the state line separates the two).
Martin, TN, 10 miles south, didn't come to put out the fire.
Union City, TN, 11 miles southwest, didn't come to put out the fire.
You can knock South Fulton all you want, but if the town had tried to put out the fire, and failed, and tried to charge the guy the full amount ($1000, $2000, or whatever) how many of you think he'd pay? And then, how many $75 subscriptions would the town sell next year? This town only has 2500 people. If the town has to service everyone, regardless of where they live, the town had just as well turn in its charter, because it couldn't charge enough taxes to pay it's bills.
If this guy had lived 3 or 4 more miles out of town, he wouldn't have even had the chance to purchase a $75 plan. And guess what, his house would have burned down anyway, because those areas don't have ANY FIRE PROTECTION, period.
That's what you get when you try to run government like a business. Nobody responds unless they are paid. Nobody cares about anything but money.
So property burns, and maybe next time somebody dies, too.
That's no way to live.
Up in our neck of the woods, we don't care if somebody paid. We respond. And further, we participate in mutual aid, where municipalities watch each others' backs and respond if the other municipality is low on resources.
Not everything should be run like a business. Some things need to be community-run, like emergency services, military and other basic infrastructure that people need. Yeah, call it socalism or whatever other bad name you want to give it, but frankly there's no viable private sector option.
How can you have a "mutual aid" agreement when one jurisdiction doesn't have a fire department worth squat? Why are the citizens of South Fulton responsible for paying to put out everyone elses fires when those other people won't fund a county fire department well enough to do the job?
How do you pay for it in your neck of the woods?
Just curious, could give some folks around here some suggestions, as we are now looking at the local ambulance company folding. This will mean EMS responders will have a 20 minute drive as opposed to the present locally based company.
I'm serious, and not just yanking your chain. Our municipality is pay as you go, and are looking at a 20 % shortfall compared to last year, and have made it clear they cannot pick up the tab for the service. The present owner has offered to sell all his equipment at cost, as due to a back injury he can no longer make calls, and stay on for 4 months free of charge to help with the transition. The city says they couldn't pay the premiums on the liability coverage, much less pay EMT's and provide fuel and maintenance.
Dave
On this, we agree totally.
I am very fortunate. I live in an area where ALL properties are covered by fire departments funded via a line item in the property tax bill. All fire departments have mutual aid agreements with many other districts. Having two to four or more different departments represented at a fire is quite common.
I have been a volunteer at numerous fires. I have also been the recipient of fire department assistance on four occasions through the years. But, only grass fires. I do not have the training to provide worthwhile assistance with a structure fire, especially, an occupied structure.
The situation featured in the story at the top of this thread was created by the local people, thousands of them, who have chosen to not be willing to pay into a central fund (or by a property tax) to ensure that a basic fire department in available to protect their lives and property. The ONLY REASON this made national news was because the NEIGHBOR was smart enough to take advantage of a service as offered. Otherwise, the South Fulton crew would have done precisely the same thing as the other nearby fire departments mentioned above by Tommy.
You should be outraged. Not at the fire crew, but at the reluctance of thousands of people willing to forgo what the rest of the country views as a vital service. Maybe next they will decide they don't want to pay for schools. In that case, the State and Feds would jump into the middle of the issue immediately and see to it that they were forced to pay for schools. Apparently, fire departments aren't as important as schools.
The latest thing in California is Cities want to bill people from elsewhere who get in an accident and the local fire responds.
They don't refuse to provide service but if they do provide service and you aren't a resident of the City then you will get a bill for thousands later (usually paid for by insurance).
Essentially what is happening is instead of paying sufficient property tax direct we are refusing to pay enough so the local agencies have to get creative. Then the bill gets paid by an insurance company which then has to raise insurance premiums to cover this new potential cost. So you pay one way or the other.
I've never heard of subscription fire service. That service model won't work if they put the fire out anyway because then no one would pay at all.
The public should quit being so god-damned cheap and pay sufficient tax to support vital services like fire and police and streets (my suburban street is turning to gravel).
Tommy
If they are so worried about money then why did they respond? Seems like mobilizing everyone and getting to the site with equipment would cost almost as much as squirting some water on it.
Tommy
They mobilized because they had an obligation to the neighbor. No other nearby fire department had a reason to mobilize.
Here's my take on situations that have happened in Oregon/Washington where I live. People have the right if they live outside the small incorporated city to not be in the fire district. None of the taxes they pay go to the fire department. The fire department has to have insurance. Their insurance does not cover them if they respond to someplace outside their area. If they respond, the insurance gets canceled, or they get sued and have no insurance, so now no one has fire protection. Now before you argue about saving lives, I'm sure the firefighters personally would save lives if they were in danger. Don't mix property with lives.
Local CA city "Fire Medical" subscription. This is more related to EMS or paramedic response rather than fire suppression.
http://www.lomalinda-ca.gov/asp/Site/Departments/FireDepartment/MedicalServices/intro.asp
$48 per year.
