I'm filling out one of these forms to verify with the licensing board the fellow I had working with me six months this year. Haven't filled out a ton of these. Sharp guy but I'm hesitant to give him credit for six months of responsible charge because I found that coming from a construction surveying background having gone through a union apprenticeship, he lacked the most basic trig math skills and any working knowledge of coordinate geometry, not to mention any knowledge of boundary related law. I'm sure he is a master grade hop and could slope stake up a storm, but putting together a survey on his own was way beyond his skill set. Not to mention he was argumentative, which didn't sit too well with me. Would you give someone credit for responsible charge if you didn't feel he was ready to handle that responsibility? I don't want to cheat the guy, but I don't want to stretch the truth either.
TIA. Have a great day & Yippy Kai Yay.
~Williwaw of the great (not so) white north.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I'm assuming he claimed the entire time he was working for you as responsible charge.
In Oklahoma the reply from an employer is confidential (or use to be) and never actually seen by the applicant. I have "canned" one or two previous employees for the same reasons you stated. I don't believe they ever knew who it was that had helped rescind their app.
In my mind what it boils down to is do you think the applicant is at a point now that if he passed examination he would be capable of performing in a professional manner.
Either yah or nay. They are asking for your opinion. Give it to them.
The truth shall set you free.
> I had working with me six months this year.
He either was or he wasn't in responsible charge. Doesn't seem like too much gray area there.
0.02
Do not over think the question and overtly place yourself as judge of the guy.
That is why everyone goes thru testing on the knowledge and procedures involved to complete a survey properly.
The form wants to know if you put him in charge of his own work or did you do the work for him.
Remember, time spent in job training is full of people making mistakes, that is an important part of the learning process, and another part is to not make the same mistakes over and over.
A guy that worked for me actually admitted that he did not to be in responsible charge and walked out and quit by email and I've never seen him since.
I understand he is licensed now and he never had a review letter sent to me to send in on his behalf.
I've never graded anyone's work, simply stated that they had done whatever work for whatever time.
Keep it simple.
0.02
I agree either he was in charge of the job and or crew or he wasnt. The exam will test his math skills.
As the others have stated, list the appropriate time "in charge". I'm a little surprised that you feel, with his construction background, that his math is substandard. You aren't a construction surveyor if you can't do the math!
-JD-
Not sure about Alaska, but was the time he worked for you progressing towards more responsibility? I just filled one out for a fella who worked under me more than 9 years ago for about the same amount of time. Me as a mentor, did push for more responsibility and accountability. How that person has been since then, I don't know.
SD
Focus on the positive. He could grade stake a slope like nobody else.
Given the short time you spent with him, you could state that you have no opinion on his abilities at boundary surveying. But he could grade stake like nobody else.
I have refused to do these before because of not actually having the direct knowledge of their abilities. But it wasn't someone who had been a PC for me.
The last one I did was for an engineer I used to work for/with. I sent him a copy of what I sent the board. I basically won't say something about you I won't say to you.
B-)
If you have something to say about somebody you say it TO them first. That's manhood 101...
As a matter of fact I did. Without getting into personal details, I was told by this individual that he was not going to finish out the season and was taking another job for the winter and wanted me to guarantee his position back in the Spring. I told him I was on the fence for the reasons stated above. This he did not take very well and proceeded to toss all of his personal affects in a cardboard box and didn't show up for work the remainder of the week, but not before calling me a liar. When he did return I informed him that I was no longer on the fence and he had made that decision for me.
I'm now closing this chapter by completing this work verification form and that was the impetus for my seeking advice here. Not to be advised on manhood 101, although I do appreciate your point.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
My post was an agreement with Williwaw, not a ding on anyone...
I've read all the replies and pondered on it some.
Glad I'm not in your shoes.
Board accreditation is more serious than simple job references - I would think.
I've been called up on many job references for friends and co-workers in the past.
Fortunately I was never in a hiring or firing position so I could say what I thought.
Most of them asked my permission to be listed as a reference and some did not.
Those that did not, I figured might be trying to ride my coat tails. (I was semi-famous in the programming world at one time) I usually ended up questioning the caller on who exactly they were and why call me. I imagine it didn't go well for the applicant.
Those that did ask my permission always told me what they were applying for and what I should focus on if I was called. Yes, that's coaching but that's acceptable. Some were pis-pot programmers but were not going for a programming position - just support. So I was good with that. One good friend - still a close friend - calls me up one night asking if I had been called on his reference. Indeed I had. He asked what I said because he had a job offer turns out being within an hour after my call. Funny thing was the caller had already offered me a job as well.
Funnier still is my buddy got the job and started the following Monday - sitting no less than 10 feet away from me. I about fell out of my chair when he was brought around being introduced as the "new employee". We shook hands and hugged "you two know each other?". I didn't know he was applying at our company! Later over some pay-back drinks I asked why he didn't tell. He said he didnt' want me to be biased.
The subject says it all. "Work Experience Verification"
Don't allow your personal opinions or emotions override the facts.
> This he did not take very well and proceeded to toss all of his personal affects in a cardboard box and didn't show up for work the remainder of the week, but not before calling me a liar.
Give him a B for Big Gonads. I think I would have worked 6 mos longer and applied next year rather than try to cross a burnt bridge.
You're right vern. I'm not going to do anything to sabotage this guys future. That would make for bad karma. The real question for me was responsible charge, or not. But after reading everyone's comments I've concluded that it is totally academic and I must give him the benefit of the doubt. He still has to pass the LSIT exam where his math skills will be vetted and then, then if he gets that far, to sit for the LS exam. If he makes it all the way, more power to him. I taught the guy as much as he could swallow and he thanked me for that on his way out the door.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
From the LS application form for Alaska:
“Responsible Charge of work in the Field” means the direction of work, the successful accomplishment of which rested upon the
applicant, where the applicant has to decide questions of methods of execution and suitability of materials without relying upon advice or
instructions from his superiors and where the applicant has to supply solutions to deficiencies in plans or has to correct errors in designs
without first referring them to higher authority for approval, except where the approval is a matter of form.
(2) “Responsible Charge” as it pertains to “work in the office” means undertaking investigations or carrying out assignments which demand
resourcefulness and originally, or making plans, writing specifications, and directing drafting and computations for the sign of architectural,
engineering, or land surveying work with only rough sketches, general information, and field measurements for reference.
I've always pretty much interpreted it as a crew chief is acting in responsible charge.
Talk to him. Ask him if he's going to stay with you for the rest of the pull. If so, hey, what's a few months among friends. Then, train him.
> Board accreditation is more serious than simple job references - I would think.
Bingo! Two different kettles of fish. I'll not comment on board references here (of which I've done a few and refused others) but will say this about job references: upon formal request state only the hire and separation dates, and the title of the position(s) held, nothing more, in writing. Seen several ugly situations where litigation was initiated, by savvy gamesters who couldn't hold a job, because, well, they sucked, and some supervisor blew his beets over the phone and got the firm in hot water. Luckily a few thousand bucks made the complainer go away.
Take my advice as you wish, but, if you're working for a big firm with a lot of assets to protect, refer all contacts to HR who knows how to handle this stuff.