At the LSIT level and in the transition to LSIT?
Is it reasonable to think that someone with that kind of experience anywhere from 4 to 10 years should be drafting drainage plans curb and gutter and other types of MEP or is that way over scope and that's beyond survey just curious.
I understand that drafting is part of the process and I'm getting better at it daily but sometimes I wonder because my sub-assemblies for Ada walks and curbs and gutter and impoundments and and and...
I begin to wonder where we cross over to the civil engineering side and you're kind of taking advantage of someone and a set of skills that's not really what they do but I guess I don't know and I'm asking because I'm looking at jobs and some small to medium-sized design build businesses and it seems like drafting is heavily relied upon and I'm not sure what that means.
And yes I understand when I'm doing cut and fill for a curb and gutter and setting up the plans for the field work to set the markers and set the elevations I'm supposed to be able to know how to read the plans and take it but I guess my question is how many of you utilize the survey techs to do that drawing and that utilization rather than the civil engineering group and or do you just share the responsibility.
And wow Google text to voice or voice to text is doing a pretty good job today.
As long as an engineer is stamping the plans, it's not a big deal.
An LSIT is probably paid less than an EIT; even if the LSIT can do a better job. So of course they're going for spending the least amount of money and making the most...
When I was an LSIT in the 1970s, I drafted a lot of plan and profile drawings in addition to the final maps.?ÿ It is useful skill when doing construction layout.
@dougie?ÿ
The fellow who owned my house property before me was a bachelor.?ÿ He was very much a back to nature sort of a guy.?ÿ He helped me survey for a couple of years and loved inspecting the various flora and fauna we encountered.?ÿ Also, any rock houses, fences or buildings.?ÿ He had a well drilled and a windmill installed.?ÿ His goal was to have the windmill pump water up to a concrete storage tank.?ÿ A picher pump was to be installed near a sink.?ÿ That would be the entire water system for the house.?ÿ No need for an indoor bathroom.?ÿ He could use a galvanized washing tub when he needed a bath.?ÿ About 100 feet from the house he dug a deep hole in the yard, stacked square bales of straw up to form screening and placed roofing tin across the top of the bales with enough concrete blocks set on them to keep them from flying away.?ÿ He placed a chair, somewhat similar to the one shown, only a much earlier version, to straddle the hole.
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They could have at least matched the seat color better..... ?????ÿ
Survey techs who want to continue to advance their career should be willing to do a multitude of tasks.
I tell my techs that they are my eyes, ears, and nose in the field. I am trusting them with my license. It is their job to give me all the details of what they find or see in the field, even when I'm standing right next to them on the same job site.
When field work is not available, then they should be willing to jump in on drafting, technical writing, filing, research, or any other task that needs to be taken care of to keep the gears turning. Any and all of those tasks, no matter how complicated or menial, will help them grow and learn in their career.
I know that when I was in the process of transitioning from a point monkey to an actual survey tech/LSI, drafting of any type helped me learn tons of what goes on behind the scenes. The ability to put into drawing boundaries, plans, or whatever needs drafting is a lifelong skill. Having someone bleed (redline) all over your product and then able to make corrections without getting insulted is also a huge skill set.
Look at every task as a chance to learn. Only you can decide what to take away from those tasks.
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You are mixing employment conditions and job titles. The two may or may not enjoy a relationship, unless of course you are in a union shop.
You do what needs done under the direction of the licensee. If you are not comfortable speak up...
Understood. It's they lay of the land with lots of the job descriptions and HR department BS.
We want. PLS. But we'll take someone who knows something and wants to get a license some day.
That's not the most horrible one.
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Yeah, I'm picking up what you're laying down. The Surveyor I was working with was doing just that.
Encouraging and not demeaning, firm but not unfair or ridiculous.
I like pounding grid once in a while. Just not 15 hours a day anymore.
Which is why I'm being very judicious with the application and interview process.
Dirt and sweat is part of Surveying. Teaching the new people how to pound rebar and mag nails and offsets and field calcs is too.
I'm in a rare place, about 50/50 shifty for field and office.
I'd be happy and willing with similar and fill in doing anything as needed when we have all hands stuff.?ÿ That's just good teaming.
Thank you for your answers.
Then there are the Government job titles.?ÿ You arrived in town by hopping a ride on a turnip truck.?ÿ You ask around for a place that might be looking for a worker with few skills.?ÿ Someone points you towards the nearest Government operation,?ÿ They interview you, check your urination qualification and offer you a job as Second Assistant (trainee level) to the Boucoup Inspector.?ÿ Six months later you are a Junior Engineer.?ÿ Six months after that you are a Senior Mechanical Design Engineer.?ÿ Six months later you are Director of Engineering.?ÿ Not bad for a dropout who never attempted to get a GED, let alone any kind of college level coursework.?ÿ That $24,000 per year plus benefits beats the heck out of hoeing and pulling turnips.
At the LSIT level? It's really hard to quantify something like that. Some folks literally do a single task for years and manage to pass the FS.
I have known LSITs with zero practical knowledge of boundary resolution. Others were good enough that the PLS let them handle all but the most complex projects. I've met some who are rock stars at data reduction, and others who could barely get raw data out of the collector, let alone process, QC, and adjust it.
My employer has different levels for every title, usually three or four. They actually spell out some specific tasks that each level would be expected to perform. Sounds good in theory, but in practice you can look at all the folks at a particular level and find that 20% shouldn't be allowed to do the stuff they are supposed to do, and 20% are already ahead of the folks at the next level up. Time in grade inevitably trumps skill set and ability when it comes to advancement (and pay).
An LSIT office tech should need minimal hand-holding for average day to day tasks, but require dedicated mentorship for things like boundary analysis, data reduction/network analysis, and maybe research. Depending on background they might need regular assistance with writing descriptions, reviewing title docs, and the like. But I would expect an LSIT to be able to do anywhere from 50-90% of it on their own before needing help. Regular check ins should be the norm, since the idea is to train a future PLS.
But that's just me. YMMV.
Sounds like a GIS Specialist I used to work with.....except she had an MBA and a big divorce settlement.
Which is good because she couldn't GIS her way out of a wet paper bag with no bottom.
Don't even get me started about the 7000 dollars of expired HP ink she ordered in advance tho save money in bulk.. predating me...then assigned the plotter maintenance and such to moi.
All crows come home to roost I suppose
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@rover83?ÿ
Very similar to where I am now, except we only have two slots. And they Call us Engineer Technicians which kinda chaps my hide.?ÿ I'm actually pushing for our own slot as we are a dedicated surveying dept, and it's been an uphill battle before I got there.
I'm in the apogee of what I can do, and it's why in looking to leave. No one is even interested in the FS or LSIT. So yeah. It's not really encouraging or helping.
Again, these are the reasons I showed up in this job, and want to continue on the path.?ÿ
Thank you again for the candor, this profession survives barely, and is an amazing career.?ÿ More people need to learn about it.
AND...at least in my state, you can still get an engineering stamp through on the job experience, do enough engineering work and you might be able to apply for the EIT. Hard to pass that test without the schooling from what I have seen, but I do know some PE's without a degree.
@dmyhill?ÿ
I'm survey all the way.
I got a D on my friends take home Civil Engineering test and that was just a monkey playing Mozart.
My head hurts now without thermo and statics etc.
Sadly I've been picking up things like the Manning equation, and used young's modulus of elasticity for tape cantenary stuff. So I guess I'm still trainable...
I like measuring and poring over history.?ÿ I'll support the Engineers.
