So they gave you a new title report that no longer references those easements? And your survey is to be based on this new title commitment which doesn't contain those easements as exceptions? As long as you reference which title report your survey is based on I think you can show what they're asking.....
Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread. I continue to learn. Now where do I obtain my PDH certificate?
Brad Ott, post: 394782, member: 197 wrote: Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread. I continue to learn. Now where do I obtain my PDH certificate?
In response to the couple of posts that said no problem as long as you reference only the new title commitment, I'd add a word of caution. If the easements, or whatever exception that appeared in earlier PTRs but not in the latest, for some reason did not get extinguished upon merger of title (i.e. they also benefit some parcel that was not part of the merged lands), but the title company dropped it, you would still need to show it.
The surveyor has the responsibility to show any and all easements that he was made aware of or should have been aware of. The new standards have clarified that the surveyor is not expected to perform an exhaustive title search, so if you do not show an easement because you were never provided any info on it and there was no obvious indication of it in the field, then the liability for missing it is on the title company. But if you were made aware of it, or if there is some obvious indication that there should be an easement for some purpose (i.e. fd o/h electric lines or junction boxes for u/g elec on property but have no easement docs), then you have the responsibility to show what you were made aware of and inquire as to the existence of an easement for existing facilities that you have no easement documentation for.
IMO, if you are surveying boundaries, and especially if you are performing ALTA/NSPS surveys, you should have or be actively developing expertise in title matters. As someone else pointed out, the title profession is very different than what it was 30 years ago. There are a few title officers around who are truly title experts, but that number has been dwindling since the late 80s or so, and as those people who began their careers in the title industry in that time frame or earlier retire, the number of title experts to be found at title companies will rapidly approach zero.
We tend to forget, that they aren't really "title companies". That's just the shorthand we use. They are "Title Insurance Companies", which means that it's a lot easier to find expert actuaries, salespeople, and forms management specialists (yes, I just made that term up, but you likely know what I mean and would agree it's accurate) than it is to find an expert title examiner in those businesses.
Surveyors should have been overlapping the title business in title expertise all along, and many have. It's now more important that we do so than in any point within my 36 year career. There is no other profession that is already so well equipped to fill that void, and few others that rely on title information as much as we do to do their job.
Several years ago (around 1997 or 1998), I was performing an ALTA for a shopping center that had been around for a few decades. The client was refinancing and preparing for a complete tear-down and rebuild and had initially provided a copy of the title commitment that he had gotten when he bought the place. That PTR was prepared in the mid 80s and had something like 60 exceptions, most of which were easements. When the new PTR came in, it had less than two dozen items listed on Schedule B. Since at least a third of those were various tax and govt fee statements, that meant that something like 12 or 15 easements were listed.
I asked the title officer why the disparity and to look into the other 30 or so easements that were not included in the recent PTR to see if they had been extinguished or vacated. A few days later, I got a new revised PTR that included all of the easements that were on the old one but not on the recent one. A week or two later, the client dropped by to drop off some other papers he had found that he thought might be of help to us. It was the PTR that was prepared for when his predecessor in title had acquired the property in the early 80s. It had all of the easements from the PTR from the mid 80s, plus 4 or 5 more.
Went through the same exercise with the current title company as before. That was the first time I realized just how much the title industry had changed, that they didn't typically perform anything close to an exhaustive search for record encumbrances, and didn't even analyze other title matters brought to their attention. Of all those easements on the old PTRs, several had almost certainly been vacated since the mid 80s (otherwise there were old water lines running through the foundations of new buildings, etc.), but the title company didn't do any additional research to determine if that was the case. It's far easier to just list them in the exceptions to coverage list and not worry about it further.
As I recall, one of the two older PTRs had been prepared by the same company we were working with on the project. It's probably one of the First to come to mind when thinking of American title Companies.
James Fleming, post: 394783, member: 136 wrote:
A true friend.
Was told today by a title company owner that the specific thing we were discussing didn't really matter anymore. We were discussing the fact that I had found a deed from one railroad to another (current owner) that listed a 20-foot wide easement for a spur track, 10 feet either side of the center line, that impacted certain lots in certain blocks including one lot in the block I am surveying. How that easement came into existence is a good question as there does not appear to be any documents for any of the lots/blocks involved recorded proving it's creation. There was a spur track many years ago. It is completely gone today. There is no way to know precisely were the center line was. I did find a survey from 1925 showing how it ran across the very first lot in the first block closest to the main line, but it shows the existence of a second spur track very close by that is not mentioned in the deed I had found.
Whether or not the title company takes the alleged spur track into account somehow on the pending real estate transfer has no bearing on my survey. I primarily brought it to the attention of the seller (my client) so they could get a head start on dealing with any problems that might create with the title insurance company. They intend to have the closing about two days after I finish the boundary survey. As mentioned above, the title company assumes there is no risk in ignoring the railroad deed stating there is an easement. It's their problem, not mine.
Holy Cow, post: 394826, member: 50 wrote: Was told today by a title company owner that the specific thing we were discussing didn't really matter anymore. We were discussing the fact that I had found a deed from one railroad to another (current owner) that listed a 20-foot wide easement for a spur track, 10 feet either side of the center line, that impacted certain lots in certain blocks including one lot in the block I am surveying. How that easement came into existence is a good question as there does not appear to be any documents for any of the lots/blocks involved recorded proving it's creation. There was a spur track many years ago. It is completely gone today. There is no way to know precisely were the center line was. I did find a survey from 1925 showing how it ran across the very first lot in the first block closest to the main line, but it shows the existence of a second spur track very close by that is not mentioned in the deed I had found.
Whether or not the title company takes the alleged spur track into account somehow on the pending real estate transfer has no bearing on my survey. I primarily brought it to the attention of the seller (my client) so they could get a head start on dealing with any problems that might create with the title insurance company. They intend to have the closing about two days after I finish the boundary survey. As mentioned above, the title company assumes there is no risk in ignoring the railroad deed stating there is an easement. It's their problem, not mine.
Don't mess with the railroad! They'll chew you up and spit you out....