Rant warning....
I started surveying, or was first exposed to surveying, in 2002 after moving from Kentucky to St. Louis. My first job was with an archeology firm digging up dead folks and their stuff. It was a great little gig for about two field seasons and while working there I got to a use a ??total station?. While the second field season was coming to an end I starting looking for another job realizing my days as Indiana Jones were limited. On a Sunday, while looking through the classified adds, I saw that a local surveying company was hiring. I called them up and spoke with the Head Cheese (PLS - had no idea what that was). Conversation went about like this, "Hello, I saw your add about a surveyor helper??I have used a total station, worked in the field for the last year or so and I??d like to learn more about the position.? His response, ??So you??ve worked in the field?? all summer, and winter, and you want to keep doing that?? ??Yes," I said. ??When can you start? he replied?
I worked at that firm for about three years straight, left for about 3 months and then came back for another two years. My time there was the best surveying years so far. I loved every bit of it, millions of stories. I started on a three man crew, pounded hubs and stakes for at least 100 neighborhoods in the St. Louis during the big boom of the 2000??s. During those years I went from knowing nothing to running a crew to a PLS in 5 States.
How did I do that??from working with an older very well seasoned, (aka Old Salty Dog Asshole) and experienced crew chief that yelled, screamed, cussed, how eloquently taught and explained why I messed up! In fact, I remember him forcing me to drive 3 36? lathes flush to the ground without breaking them (break one, start all over). I'd flag and stack 35 lathes per 5 gallon bucket (that would always fall over) all day long. Man... when that truck went into park??you'd hop out and start getting shit ready. Pull out the legs, get the gun out, grab your tool pouch, machete, hammer?? The last thing you wanted was the nickname ??Pockets? (standing there with your hands in your pockets). Doesn't matter where we parked, he always told me, "Son we're surveying, don't matter where the hell we are. We're always gonna gonna need the same stuff, do the same stuff, and always gonna need you to flag up some lathes. So get your ass out of the truck and get ready to work."
Fast forward 20 years, a few different firms and now at S@M all of our field crews are one-man or two man with an I-Man, that can??t spell GPS. Most of our crews don??t carry levels and don??t know how to use them if they did and 80% of the CC can??t use the Total Station. And I??m not taking about an old lock down gun. They can??t use a brand new Trimble S Series Robot! GPS or nothing! I talk to crews all the time explaining to them how to do basic stuff, stuff a 6-month veteran should know. I would bet 100% of our crews could not do a small topo survey with a level and stadia rod.
I learned how to survey land. I went back to school and took classes, earned a second degree and graduate certificate in surveying, I still read every survey related book I can get my hands on. I learned how to read a deed by walking the lines with deed in hand. I learned how much a 36" lath bag loaded with a 3 lb. hammer in it, banging against your leg, while walking through muck sucked. I learned where all the Quick Trips (gas stations) are. I learned that buying your crew chief a 5-gallon bucket of seeds for Christmas went a long way. I learned not to spray the lathes upwind from your crew chief.?ÿ
The advancement of technology has killed the surveying profession. I wholeheartedly believe this. One-man crews cannot teach this odd profession. We can't get help because we don't grow surveyors. We are demanding highly educated kids that have never worked in surveying to come right out of school and hit the ground running. As a result, they demand a high pay which doesn't allow us to train them on practical surveying skills. The University doesn't teach them to get the hell out of the truck, drive a lath without breaking it, flag up 100 lath, drive the lath straight, buy your crew chief lunch, show up early to load the truck, fill the water cooler, punch nails, sweep out the truck...
Many have described the "love" of surveying or "catching the bug" of surveying...well if you don't experience the survey crew life then it's tough to fall in love with pushing buttons. If we keep ignoring the important role apprenticeship has in our profession we are doomed.?ÿ
rant off 0.02
OUTF%*$INGSTANDING!!!!!
My potty mouth guy was always high on Cannabis gummies, and would nap while i was running the topo. Ha. We never flagged lath until it was in the ground, but dammit, we tied flagging on to 60D nails like they were being used in a fire fight on the front lines somewhere.?ÿ I agree, if you dont get any field time you're basically useless.?ÿ Not because you can't work, because you can't relate to anyone in the field.
Surveying is possibly the coolest job that is both a trade and a profession there is.?ÿ It is complex, takes people with the right interest and willingness to get dirty, learn constantly, and be professionals.?ÿ And work hard.?ÿ
That wasn't a rant, that was telling it like it is man, and well done too!?ÿ Spraying your chief with a cloud of marker paint is AWESOME!!!!
we tied flagging on to 60D nails like they were being used in a fire fight on the front lines somewhere.?ÿ
My chief taught me, among many other things, to tie multiple 60D nails on a single string of flagging, then put each nail in the opposite hand, (ie first nail right hand, second nail left hand, etc.). Once you've come to the last nail, cut the flagging in the middle. Did a lot of this in my early days of surveying.
We flagged a few lath before starting too. The color depended on what we were doing but always a handful to get us started.
@stlsurveyor you tell it like it is and I've experienced this many, many times in my days here. Most of the time, that CC who can't do anything but GPS will move on to the next "higher paying" job (typically pipeline) and take their lack of skills right along with them.
Did you use a lath to cut the flagging too?
Funny how the previous field maestros all had similar experiences and techniques.
Efficiency finds a home in repetition and value in saving time.
Did you use a lath to cut the flagging too?
We tried using a lath once without success. A knife, or machete, works best. "HI-YA, Ninja chop!!"
Oh, and watch your fingers.?ÿ
One man crews make adequate mentoring all but impossible. We are our own worst enemy...
No one mentors anyway.
Most of us are old and crotchety, even a simple request like spend an extra 30 seconds getting the tribrach centered on the tripod is met with resistance.
There is a lot of false hurry in our profession/occupation/mysterious endeavor.?ÿ I think back on all the times as a kid I rushed rushed gotta git it done NOW!!!?ÿ Then the map sits in the drawer for 4 months.
I can dig it but beware of the elixir of nostalgia, some of them old piss and vinegar types can take that anger with them into the sunset as far as I am concerned.
?ÿ
Amen to that. I refuse to wax nostalgic on the days of the chief yelling just because they can. There were some along the path who imparted sound practice and wisdom. I will be forever thankful for them, and it saddens me that few youngsters have the chance to learn that way...
I had a real jag of a chief once whom wanted to 'lay down the law'
I am about 13 years his senior, a college educated and job experiences and good judgement based person. He was very insecure. Esp when i asked questions.
He had me, with no help from him,hump around a lath bag full of lath and another lath bag full of tposts (only the 5 ft type) and the post driver( also known here in some threads as a hammer, forehead reshaper, and cow bell) and kept walking away from me as fast as he could.
I kept up, broke the strap on the lath bag carrying the tposts because of the 120lbs of weight, and never complained once.
He had plenty to say about the broken strap.
On the trip back to the office I asked him if he was planning on getting his license( he had been surveying about 12 years then) and he said he didnt pass the test last attempt.
?ÿ
So I asked " Are you studying for it now so you don't bomb it again?"
Was a quiet ride the rest ofthe way, and I didnt have to work with him much ever again after that.
Respect is earned, not inflicted. Poorly trained people only know how to carry forward what they were given usually.?ÿ There are exceptions, and too few at that.
?ÿ
He eventually got licensed.?ÿ I guess he ended up studying finally.
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
I've often heard about the grumpy crew chiefs.?ÿ I was VERY fortunate that I started out with some really laid back crew chiefs who were very willing to teach what they knew and never really got ruffled.?ÿ Some of the Kentucky surveyors might know them, so shout-out to Joel Prine and Byron Temple.?ÿ I don't think a rabid rottweiler on a job site could have gotten Byron out of sorts.
We are demanding highly educated kids that have never worked in surveying to come right out of school and hit the ground running. As a result, they demand a high pay which doesn't allow us to train them on practical surveying skills. The University doesn't teach them to get the hell out of the truck, drive a lath without breaking it, flag up 100 lath, drive the lath straight, buy your crew chief lunch, show up early to load the truck, fill the water cooler, punch nails, sweep out the truck...
There are faculty who have never worked on a field crew, so they would not even know to mention something like this to the students.?ÿ It is all theory.?ÿ Sarcasm - might as well get rid of that pesky experience requirement.
Also, much of that is personality.?ÿ What Mark mentioned in the other thread about the 3,6 etc month evaluations is when you really see who has the right mind set for the work.?ÿ I'm familiar with folks who spent years being told/shown the getting everything ready in the morning routine and never got that habit of checking the pole or supply levels, even had to be told everything when on the job site.?ÿ But hey, at least they showed up for $6.00 an hour.
I grew tired of complaining about the profession eating their young with the whole 'do more with less' push for efficiency over the last 20 years and so every season when I know we're gong to have plenty of work I hire at least one of the most promising young talents I can find to work the season and help us out. I think of it as paying it forward. I've found I can either poach talent or grow my own and the latter has always seemed to work out better and if one of them goes on to take over my job some day, I know did something right.?ÿ
