Mortgage inspections @ $145

Along the same lines, I have heard that it is fairly common practice for many businesses to offer a promotional service or product at a loss to attract business with the hopes they will buy other regularly priced goods or services.

A month or so ago, an electronics store sent a flyer with a coupon for a thumb drive fora really discounted price. I went, browsed around the store, and only bought they thumb drive. I am rarely the "ideal target" customer according to marketers 😛

There are short cuts available in most any business.

My normal request for a mortgage inspection is nothing like what these megacompanies are after. Mine are one-time deals involving small lenders for the most part. One we worked on recently will cost more than what most assume a real survey to cost. The megacompany would lose bigtime on that specific job. I will have a tidy profit.

The way they make their money is by focusing on the gravy jobs. For example, they can recreate entire sudivisions with hundreds or thousands of houses and have these pre-loaded into their central data base. All the boundary dimensions, etc. are already known and already on a plat. Aerial views of the existing structures can be used as a quick doublecheck of field determined measurements (if any). Those with direct access to the local county appraiser's office may already know the dimensions of the structures as measured by the county workers for their own database. I'm guessing these megacompanies insert those dimensions unless their is an obvious visual difference between the appraiser's data and the aerial view suggesting a recent addition or deletion to the structure. Also, the megacompanies expect to have repeat calls for the same property. That has happened to me twice.

Assume the standard fieldwork consists of a survey chariot pulling up, the lone worker does a quick check of a couple building corners to apparent boundary lines, then he drives off to the next location which has been predetermined to minimize travel time between sites. Said data is e-mailed to the paired draftsman for confirmation of the plat that has already been prepared and merely needs confirmation before going out the door. Sleazeballs probably skip the fieldwork entirely as the risk of getting caught is minimal. The incidence of someone suing the provider is probably far more uncommon than a case of a title insurance company actually paying a claim.....and we know that's mighty rare.

> That larger umbrella company could possibly be making an executive decision to offer mortgage inspections at a low rate (even at a loss if necessary) by its sub-company but charge industry standard in other sectors such as control, topo, construction, etc.

I asked my doctor how he can only charge $25 for an annual physical and he said he'll make it up when I get cancer :'(

A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession

They are making money somehow...otherwise they would not be in business at all.

Look at Google, when Gmail came out..."how could they offer email for free?", when Android came out "How can they offer an entire OS for free?", "How can they offer un-subsidized phones for such low cost?", "How is a product like Google Earth free?"

They are making money elsewhere and using those products to increase their name/marketshare in certain markets. They get people using their stuff, their ecosystem, then they charge for other stuff like Google Play music, Ad-Free gmail, Google Drive, Google business services, Google Earth Pro, Corporate Google Search, and more.

It's like using low priced mortgage inspections to get other projects, to get data, to build name, etc. They may be making little to no money on those inspections, but they are making money somewhere else as a result of doing those cheap inspections... otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

I don't do much residential work, I did originally but have stopped. To me it's like the webmail of the surveying industry. Sure I make some revenue off of it but the profit margins are so low that I've written it off as a profit area...we use them to build reputation and increase our name in the area. I lose most of them to other surveyors, and I don't lose money on them when I win them, but I don't make money directly from them either. But now that homeowner needs a topo, is adding a garage, installing a pool or fence, or they sell and I already have the info, or they know an engineer, an architect, a building inspector, a developer, a construction company, etc and recommend us to them...that's when I make money from residential work.

Another example would be Elevation Certificates/LOMA's...Say the average price is $600, it takes an hour or so in the field solo to do one and an hour of paperwork. So lets say it actually cost me $175-$200 bucks to do. We mass-mail a neighborhood of 10 houses offering them for $450. Thats $250 profit each, probably more because we can mass produce the majority of paperwork, and we can do multiple in one trip. So now I've pretty much guaranteed that we'll get those jobs without competition and we'll make $2500-3000 in profit. Where as if we had priced them at $600 and only won 5 of them we would have only profited $2000. So we offer the service at a bit less, guarantee (or as much as you can) the majority or all of the customers, and make more profit. You also get the benefit of having those people recommend you to others whom you can charge the usual $600 to. It's a business gamble but a calculated one, just like all business it.

I'm not defending low ballers, I've been bit there as well, but there is often a reason for it, especially from larger companies. It also happens with smaller companies that have less of a reputation and are looking to increase it or less overhead and still make good profit.

Tom

These are not boundary surveys. From a land surveyors view there is no way this could have value. I don't do them and they are not a thing in my state. They are probably just a check off box on a mortgage application among the hundred others. There must a profit there somewhere. Not anything I'm interested in.

Ain't like these are the only worthless thing going on. Probably good they don't cost anymore. Paying $145 for a worthless checkoff is bad enough, a thousand or two would really be bad.

Jim-

Thanks for the lead on 'professions' from Wiki:

List of professions
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A profession has two fundamental cores: (1) the art practiced is helpful to others; and (2) the persons so engaged in that art govern the practice in a way that is primarily for the public good.[1]

Professions include:[2][3]

Academics
Accountants
Actuaries
Architects
Audiologist
Clergymen
Dentists
Economists
Engineers
Language professionals
Lawyers
Librarians
Nurses
Pharmacists
Physicians
Physiotherapists
Psychologists
Professional Pilots
Scientists
Social workers
Speech-Language Pathologist
Statisticians
Surgeons
Surveyors
Teachers
Urban Planners

I never heard of mortgage inspections until the forums came along. They don't exist in California.

The appraiser goes to the address and looks for the obvious, missing appliances, obvious code issues, etc. The termite guy looks for dry rot. No one seems to care if the house is on the correct lot.

I guess it could serve a purpose in an established subdivision where it is simple to check to see if the house might be on the correct lot. Where they go wrong is drawing a diagram or certifying zoning code compliance. It should be more like I drove by, made a few measurements and find no obvious problems.

When you go before the state board,
it does not matter what the fee was

This whining about lowballers and cheap work is tired

If there is no violation with state statutes
There's no complaint (period)

> When you go before the state board, it does not matter what the fee was...
Exactly. So you can't say "I was only charging them $145, I couldn't be expected to meet minimum standards at those rates".

While none of us knows just what exactly this company is doing, we all have confidence that they cannot possibly be doing a proper survey for $145. To me, the "no closing, no cost" promise is enough to warrant a complaint.

I think it likely that if you are fortunate enough to live in one of the homes they have previously surveyed and have on file they will provide a copy, possibly with a driveby update, for $145. From there the upselling begins.

What they're doing is legal in Mass. It may not be what most of us want to put our names on - but it's not anything against the rules.

They're not trying to BS anyone into thinking that it's a boundary survey. It amounts to more or less an exhibit, or basic conceptual plot of a property and improvements.

In Maine it's required to put the statement, "This is not a boundary survey". The unfortunate part is that people still think that it is. To them, a survey is a survey.

But in most cases, the surveyor isn't really working for the land-owner/buyer.

I'm not a fan, but I see this as an extra for many firms - and it's not really taking work away from the rest of us, as these are no substitute for a real survey.

Also, as said above, it can be used for marketing. When a real survey is needed, I'm sure that some homeowners might call the company who did the mortgage survey.

To all the Professional Surveyors on this board: Keep doing mortgage reports for $145 dollars. And it will catch up to you. We prostitute ourselves out to the lowest bidder and then complain that we are not treated like other professionals. Yep if I was a engineer I would look down upon surveyors (professional what a loose term to be applied to what we do). I wonder if anyone ever heard just because it is legal, it don't make it right. Sorry, about the rant, but I thought our PROFESSION was past this stage, boy was I wrong. By the way try to explain to the neighbor who just got their property surveyed (i.e. the Mortgage report) that their garage is encroaching onto the property your are surveying.

>
> List of professions
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>
> A profession has two fundamental cores: (1) the art practiced is helpful to others; and (2) the persons so engaged in that art govern the practice in a way that is primarily for the public good.[1]
>

Those two items are generalized and obvious to the point of virtually not saying anything. That doesn't even scratch the surface of things that are definitive to what a profession is.

Also, WikiP is not authoritative.

Stephen

> >
>
> A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training,....
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professionbr >

And exactly where does that leave American land surveyors?

Stephen

> And exactly where does that leave American land surveyors.

Somewhere betwixt autodiadactism and the academy.

I had never heard of mortgage inspections either until learning from the guys here.
My first encounter with a real one happened this past November. My daughter was transferred to the Cleveland, OH area in August and purchased a home in November.
When I went to visit she showed me the "survey" and stupid me, I told her it did not represent a survey as we are required to do here in NC. There is a note in smallish font on the map stating that no actual survey had been done but she had not seen it. I wish I had not said anything.
I felt really bad because I could tell she seemed hurt that I apparently had surprised her by my disclosure. Didn't mean to be upsetting but I thought she should know what she has and what she doesn't have.

I admit, I am truly fascinated that so few properties there have fences, so pretending to do a residence and improvement location there is a lot safer than here. Very, very few houses and businesses here do not have a fence of some sort.

Maybe the profession could disassociate itself from mortgage inspections by removing them from needing a survey license. Make it a non survey license product. Then let them do them as cheap as anyone wants. At least that would be honest and they would no longer be impostor land surveys anymore. Let the title/real estate folks check the box and collect the $145.

> Also, WikiP is not authoritative.

That's correct. My daugther told me that once after school: more/less it is a collection of people like you and me that contribute on a subject of interest that makes up a Wikipedia source. I was unaware of this until then. A bit of an eye opener.

If the inspections are not a boundary survey, then why put a surveyor's stamp on the map.
Side-ties from the building to the property lines would seem to show the surveyor knew
where the boundary line is.

> Side-ties from the building to the property lines would seem to show the surveyor knew
> where the boundary line is.

That's probably why they don't show side ties on their (example) plan.