I completed a large project (in a very short period of time...it was a rush job). This project was on the Oklahoma-Texas State Line. I guess the reason the consulting firm called was because I had done the boundary work for one of the utility companies, which was also this firm's client.
COMPLETED and delivered per contract on June 4 of this year. I screwed my scheduling up to get to it and broke my back getting all the deliverables together on time. The job cost me an arm and a leg. (Send a couple of crews out of town for a couple of weeks with a credit card, tell them to hurry and see how much they can rack up...)
These guys owe me a good little bag of coin. Repeated calls only gets into the runaround thing...they have several offices and apparently can't remember whose doing what.
I'm fixin' to take a lawn chair and a cooler up to their OKC office and campout until somebody coughs up. Any other suggestions?
ps - a month ago I thought I had it in the bag...through some 'ninja' moves I was able to get the firm's prez'z personal secretary's cell phone number. 20 minutes after I called her, the prez returned my call...agreed it had gone on too long...he knows they've been paid on that job...he'll look into it...He actually sounded sincere...and foolin' me isn't easy. Sheeeeeezzzzz.
If it's boundary work, and Oklahoma allows it, tell them you're going to file a lien. That usually gets someone's attention.
We've done alot of work for large engineering consultants, and to my knowledge, we've never gotten stiffed on a bill. Now some have been extremely slow in paying, but they did pay.
Unfortunately I have experienced that too in the past. There is a reason most of these guys are big and most of us aren't, they use our money to get that way!
The A/E industry is the only one I am aware of where the subs only get paid after the next up the food chain gets paid, hey guess what I don't care if you ever get paid, my contract is with you and I held up my end of the contract, so pay up. If I wanted to speculate on getting paid, I would of assumed the higher risk reward ratio higher up the food chain.
Sorry, BUT this topic really burns me, and quite often the large firm did get paid months ago and still doesn't pay the subs.
SHG
Sounds like them "rush" jobs need retainers. There is a lot bigger rush when they need the product than after it has been served up.
Contact their lender on the property and let them know that you are filing a lien on the property as you were not paid at closing.
Contact the closing agent and let them know that you were not paid at closing as was their duty as a closing agent.
Contact the Title Company and let them know that you were not paid at closing and that you are not liable for anywork that you were not paid for.
Then send them all a letter that you are filing a lawsuit that is including them for theft of services because they used your product in their paperwork for monetary gain.
Be sure and contact their BOR when you have extinguished all attempts to collect your money.
Hit them where it hurts and often.
0.02
Even small engineering firms are slow payers.
Another aspect of the private side I don't miss.
Wife nagging me constantly did so-and-so pay me yet.
Add my name to the list of disgruntled big-firm consultants. The last time I did a job for a Fortune 500 company -- just about a year ago -- they took 5 months to pay half of the $20k bill, and another 3 months to pay the rest. It wasn't even a case of "we'll pay you when we get paid," as it was remedial work on a state contract for which they'd already been paid. It was simply the AP department hanging onto the money for the float, using me as the bank.
The line folks aren't happy about it, but "corporate" calls the tune. Here's a quote from an email sent by the PM to his boss and copied to me: "This is precisely why we cannot get good qualified subs to work for us a second time."
I have had this problem too many times in the past. Unless they are a good paying repeat client, they pay half up front and the other half when I hand them the drawings. Wish it did not have to be this way, but the good-old boy hand shake days are over.
> Any other suggestions?
- If your state laws allows, place a lien on property.
- If your state laws allows, send them a new invoice every month with interest charge.
At the bottom of my invoice it reads "Past due balances subject to 1.5% per month fee." This way they are not using me as a bank without paying premium rates.
- Call that secretary and any other number you have, every day or at least every week. My credit card company calls me every day or two if I forget to pay. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease".
Sad it has to be this way, Good Luck!
I know a surveyor who was owed a large sum from developer. After months of the run around he shows up at the developers door step Saturday morning at 6:30 am holding his two small children. When the developer opens the door and ask what he's doing, the surveyor replies "I can't feed my kids, so you are". The surveyor said the look on the developers wife's face was priceless. She got the check book out and wrote the check. I guess you have to know how deal with certain folks.
Consider putting a high interest rate for late payment into your contracts. When payment is late, pointing out the interest being accrued usually does the trick.
Most of the above suggestions are based on the notion that Big Engineering Corporation (BEC) is susceptible to intimidation and/or common decency, but that's not the way they work. The AP people in Big City, Distant State care not one whit whether you can feed your kids, and they aren't going to pay a nickel's worth of interest on an overdue invoice, contract terms be damned. They'll pay the principal amount when they're darn good and ready, knowing that the tab has to be many tens of thousands of dollars before it makes sense for a creditor to sue for payment.
Furthermore, unless the service you offer is unavailable from any other source, BEC isn't going to pay a retainer or pay upon delivery. If you refuse to work first and get paid later, they'll find another consultant. The PMs have no say in the matter; it's corporate policy that drives the bus.
What it all comes down to is whether you want the work or not. Despite my recent experience, I'll happily work for BEC again. However, next time I'll use a different rate sheet from the one I use for "normal" clients, one that factors in the opportunity cost attendant upon waiting 6 months or more for payment.
> I completed a large project (in a very short period of time...it was a rush job). This project was on the Oklahoma-Texas State Line. I guess the reason the consulting firm called was because I had done the boundary work for one of the utility companies, which was also this firm's client.
The bold and red above are your key. If the utility company owns the property and you have the right in your state to lien the property this is the company you will be filing the lien against. Stop making verbal (telephone) contact with anyone. Write one very nice letter recounting the timeline of your services and efforts to collect. Leave out the "ninja moves" part!
State that you are in contact with an attorney (you had better be at this point) about collection and considering filing a lien on the property. Copy the letter to the utility company, your attorney and (if your attorney so advises) the state public utilities commission. Your attorney should review the letter and may want to include that any further contact be with him. Including the utility and public utilities commission will light fires in places you do not even want to know about.
I thought you were pain in cash?
Yes, some Big Corporations will balk at paying a retainer and then it is up to us a businessmen (Not Surveyors) to make a choice. But I have never had any big or small client ask me to remove the "Payable upon delivery" or "Interest on Past Due" statements in a contract. So why not have them there?
I think that most clients never read the contract that close or take it that seriously and never realize they have to pay in full when the drawings are delivered. When the drawings are done and I point out to them that I must be paid first and stick to my guns about it, they will grumble a bit, but they are businessmen and will usually respect this in the end. They may not be in as big a rush for the drawings as they made you think, but it sure will not be 6 months before I get payed.
Understand this is why the big boys contracted you in the first place, to starve you out. Remember they have more lawyers than you have employees for a reason. They are just thinning the herd as far as potential competition.
Having been on the other side of the equation, they are the first to file a lien against a contractor who is late in paying, have seen some of them shut down their own development just to squeeze the contractor.
> Understand this is why the big boys contracted you in the first place, to starve you out. Remember they have more lawyers than you have employees for a reason. They are just thinning the herd as far as potential competition.
>
I disagree, having been on both sides of the coin, BECs usually contract out surveying because it is not cost effective to maintain a full survey staff for the peak workload. Rather it is more cost effective to keep full time staff for the steady workload and then sub contract ou the additional needs for the peaks.
How are the terms of payment spelled out in the contract?
Just going by personal experience, have heard some of them actually discussing this option when moving into a new region.
You have it all wrong
This isn't a getting paid problem... IT IS A LAW SUIT. Lawyer up, get paid.... It's not like you ever want to do "business" with them again. Lawyer up, burn the bridge... Get paid. You can't stay in business doing jobs for free.
You have it all wrong
Once you get beyond the limits of small claims court, the cost of successfully prosecuting a suit for enforcement of contract terms (e.g. payment) is so high that the uncollected amount has to be tens of thousands of dollars before it's worth the time and expense of pursuing. For most surveying projects, suing isn't a practical option.