mkennedy, post: 377438, member: 7183 wrote: I doubt a caller would need to say that because I would answer the phone, "Hilltop Surveying. My name is Melita Kennedy [optional: professional land surveyor or whatever is usual for that state]. What can I do for you today?"
"Do y'all just survey hilltops?"
"No, we do a bunch of other stuff as well."
"Oh, so you survey the sides of hills, too?"
Kent McMillan, post: 377441, member: 3 wrote: "Do y'all just survey hilltops?"
"No, we do a bunch of other stuff as well."
"Oh, so you survey the sides of hills, too?"
Oh, I miss Texas sometimes. That made me think of a new name: "Fenceline Surveying" to be confused with "Fence Line Surveying."
TXSurveyor, post: 377373, member: 6719 wrote: Yep. Using an anonymous name on a public forum means that the person can't possibly provide a professional service. That's laughable. My original point was Kent spends a lot of time worrying about someone else's company name, and stirring up things here when he could be providing constructive discussion that may help bring on new users to the forum. Most of his post turn into an arguement between a few people, I occasionally let myself get in the middle of the debacle. Case in point being this entire thread.
I wasn't making that point, just noticed the irony of calling someone out for being a bit snarky by being snarky. No worries, I always assume professionalism until proven otherwise, no matter what you call your business.
mkennedy, post: 377443, member: 7183 wrote: That made me think of a new name: "Fenceline Surveying" to be confused with "Fence Line Surveying."
Just be sure that you price it by the post and have a 20 rod minimum charge. Some possible variations:
Four-Point Surveying
Five-Strand Boundary Experts
Post & Wire Surveyors
Kent McMillan, post: 377436, member: 3 wrote: I think the obvious answer is that it wrongly encourages members of the public to view the service as a commodity no different than any other commodity, rather than a professional service for which specific license holders are entirely responsible. Do you think that encouraging members of the public to acquire surveying services on the basis of least cost is in the public interest? I certainly don't.
But what is the question?
Better yet; what is the solution? Are you suggesting that our licensing boards further micro-manage the professional? Should we be assigned a business name when we get our licence?
I wish you would read my posts before responding; have you looked at what Australia and Canada are doing?...I guess not...
RADAR, post: 377450, member: 413 wrote: Are you suggesting that our licensing boards further micro-manage the professional? Should we be assigned a business name when we get our licence?
No, professional ethics is in theory something that is instilled in the practitioner. Licensing boards only intervene in the case of obvious failure. Where things have slipped off the track is that crass commercial considerations have become business as usual in the 21st century so much that any suggestion that some business names are inherently unprofessional or unethical is met by shrugs.
I wish you would read my posts before responding; have you looked at what Australia and Canada are doing?
I'd imagine that the model of land surveying as a self-regulating profession as it is in some of the Canadian provinces is nice to observe from afar, but hardly any reason not to observe the dynamic at work in the US where the so-called free market for services as organized by corporations is a slo-mo train wreck.
Kent McMillan, post: 377452, member: 3 wrote: No, professional ethics is in theory something that is instilled in the practitioner. Licensing boards only intervene in the case of obvious failure. Where things have slipped off the track is that crass commercial considerations have become business as usual in the 21st century so much that any suggestion that some business names are inherently unprofessional or unethical is met by shrugs.
I agree:
Do you have a solution?
RADAR, post: 377454, member: 413 wrote: I agree:
Do you have a solution?
Yes. I obviously think that surveyors need to become aware that the manner in which a firm advertises itself is an important part of professional practice and that some choices made for short-term commercial reasons actually undercut the longer-term goals of sustaining the profession. A discussion of firm names is an excellent place to begin.
Kent McMillan, post: 377455, member: 3 wrote: Yes. I obviously think that surveyors need to become aware that the manner in which a firm advertises itself is an important part of professional practice and that some choices made for short-term commercial reasons actually undercut the longer-term goals of sustaining the profession. A discussion of firm names is an excellent place to begin.
It's obvious, to me; that's not a solution...
RADAR, post: 377457, member: 413 wrote: It's obvious, to me; that's not a solution...
Professions are the product of the practitioners to a large extent. If you are looking for a magic wand, I'm so sorry to tell you this, but there is only hard work. Hard work does mean working with certain strategic objectives in mind, though, and discouraging trade practices that present land surveying services as just another commodity is part of that.
Kent McMillan, post: 377475, member: 3 wrote: but there is only hard work.
I guess working smarter is only for landscapers then?
mkennedy, post: 377438, member: 7183 wrote: I doubt a caller would need to say that because I would answer the phone, "Hilltop Surveying. My name is Melita Kennedy [optional: professional land surveyor or whatever is usual for that state]. What can I do for you today?"
If you have separate business and personal cell phones/landlines, do you answer the business line with, "Hello?"
I answer my phone with: "This is Bruce, may I help you?" Since they know they are calling Bruce Small Surveys, Inc. I would think they would instantly make the connection that they are taking to the professional in charge.
RADAR, post: 377479, member: 413 wrote: I guess working smarter is only for landscapers then?
I would never accuse the Russians (that photo was taken in Moscow, I think) of being less than shrewd, but in Texas, the landscape company would have a giant vacuum truck with nobody on the tailgate. Either that or one guy from Guatemala running a leaf blower.
Kent McMillan, post: 377484, member: 3 wrote: I would never accuse the Russians (that photo was taken in Moscow, I think) of being less than shrewd, but in Texas, the landscape company would have a giant vacuum truck with nobody on the tailgate. Either that or one guy from Guatemala running a leaf blower.
Gawd Kent, I saw that leaf blower guy in my neighborhood the other day. Uncanny
I felt for him in 100 deg heat index with a gas engine on his back
Robert Hill, post: 377487, member: 378 wrote: Gawd Kent, I saw that leaf blower guy in my neighborhood the other day. Uncanny
I felt for him in 100 deg heat index with a gas engine on his back
In some upscale neighborhoods, it is a safe bet that on just about any day of the week someone other than a landowner or a member of his family will be running a gas-powered leaf blower full blast.
Kent McMillan, post: 377475, member: 3 wrote: Professions are the product of the practitioners to a large extent. If you are looking for a magic wand, I'm so sorry to tell you this, but there is only hard work. Hard work does mean working with certain strategic objectives in mind, though, and discouraging trade practices that present land surveying services as just another commodity is part of that.
Let's not concentrate on business names then. For betterment of the profession lets concentrat e on educating the guys that are still doing $350 lot jobs that they should act and charge as professionals. Professional names will follow suit. Surveying is seen as a trade by the public. Who's fault is that? Surveyors that are now considered seasoned. Yep even the ones licensed in 86. We are and have been our own worst enemy and the fact is the profession is where it is today in the public eye based on our past actions. Not the actions of the young whippersnappers. Since you feel so passionate about the lack of professional names, you should've stood up years ago at the board meetings and spoke your piece.
By the way I don't like the names like all star, or precision, or super surveying but I don't turn their angles, chop their lines or sign their plats so I don't care. It's their business. Focus on improving the profession by what you can change, not focusing on meaningless crap.
On a simialr note the absolute 2 worst surveyors in my area that are still in operation today operate under their name or include their name within their company name and even better they were licensed in the early to mid 80's. Sometimes I think they gave numbers and stamps away after a 8 hour Saturday course at the local El Chicos after the early 80's oil bust but then I remind myself there is a lot of other excellent surveyors from that time period, it's just a few guys who weren't trained properly (probably trained by the guys who really sucked it up in the 50's and 60's)
TXSurveyor, post: 377512, member: 6719 wrote: For betterment of the profession lets concentrat e on educating the guys that are still doing $350 lot jobs that they should act and charge as professionals. Professional names will follow suit. Surveying is seen as a trade by the public. Who's fault is that?
Obviously, it's the fault of the surveyors who are practicing at the tradesman level. The plague of fakey firm names is diagnostic of the underlying conditions which include :
- plausible deniability behind an organizational facade,
- desire to mislead the public, and
- reification of professional practice outside the actual scope of what a professional does, i.e. creating a sort of survey factory environment that becomes a substitute for professional involvement.
I would consider doctors to be professionals, do you? I do. Many operate under a company name with many offices such as Regional Dermatology Associates or "Gets Easier Every Time Proctology Clinic". Wait maybe thats why you are always in funk, too many visits to your favorite doctor.
It's not best for a business to rely on people who are once in a lifetime users of survey services. Such clients are bound to make their selection based on low bid, having no other notion of how to make their selection. If a business's marketing is targeted at such clients it's operations are likely to become a race to the bottom. One way to target marketing at such clientele is to select a name like AAA Surveys or the like. So, in other words, it's not the name that is unprofessional but rather the business model and marketing approach that drives the selection of the name.
A business that had such an approach might select any name, but one which had an approach aimed at more sophisticated clients - ones which would make their selection based on value rather price - would be less likely to select a named based on its googleability.
Kent-I think you are misunderstanding deceptive practices with lack of business skills. I haven't met too many surveyors that make good business men, hence the takeover of engineering companies with internal survey departments between the 70's and 90's. I also haven't met too many surveyors that would disagree. Fact is surveyors as a whole make excellent historians, fact finders, boundary law gurus and a few of us are expert measures but most aren't good at marketing a business. Many have ill fated attempts with horrible names but it doesn't make them deceptive.
