Quarterline vs road center line

  • Quarterline vs road center line

    Posted by Champ7ac on April 26, 2023 at 10:24 pm

    I own a long 40 acres. Does my property line start at the quarter line or the road centerline?

     

    Champ7ac replied 1 year ago 10 Members · 18 Replies
  • 18 Replies
  • bill93

    bill93

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 12:21 am

    1) Your profile says you are licensed in Michigan. That seems unlikely for someone asking this question, and should be corrected.

    2) In many states, and I don’t know about Michigan, rural road right-of-way is usually an easement and owned to the center line along with the adjacent land. That ownership doesn’t get you much. An easement is unlikely for state route ROWs which are more often obtained by fee purchase. There are also, rarely, roads that are not centered on section or section fraction (aliquot) lines.

    You will need a local expert to really answer your question.


    .
  • dave-karoly

    dave-karoly

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 1:42 am

    The GIS maps are worse than useless. It is likely the “quarter” line and road centerline are the same despite what the online map shows.

  • holy-cow

    holy-cow

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 1:42 am

    I’m not sure what you mean by a long 40.  Is it a half mile long, rather than closer to being a square?

    The road might fall anywhere and it is not necessarily tied to the quarter line to which you refer.  One would need to search through the County road records to determine how the road was to be laid out.  Sometimes, one owner gave up more of the width of the road than the other owner, for example a sixty foot total width with 40 from one owner and only 20 from the other.

    The deed is what tells you what is to control the boundaries of your tract.

  • MightyMoe

    MightyMoe

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 1:10 pm

    You will need a survey to tell, my guess is that the road is the 1/16th line but no surveyor can say for sure unless he already has local knowledge. I don’t even usually look at lines in the GIS, I only use it to get started for addressing rough idea of owners names and other research. 

  • Norm

    Norm

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 2:08 pm

    The information given is not official. It is given only as a point of reference. Your abbreviated legal description posted at the county web page shows an aliquot parcel. It also gives a book and page where the deed was recoded 23 years ago. Quarter lines in general control aliquot descriptions. Even though your property boundary line may be the quarter line if your legal description is aliquot there are other things such as road easements written or unwritten that limit the use. Curious why the question. By the way, using 2640 as the measurement along your east or west lines is very likely not what a survey would show by a few feet to a lot of feet. It would not be unusual for the center of a road to be established on the quarter line but that remains to be determined here. 40 acres exact is also not the area a survey would show. Looks like a beautiful piece of land. 

  • RADAR

    RADAR

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 3:04 pm

    The deed is what tells you what is to control the boundaries of your tract.

    GIF

    You should hire a surveyor to interpret what your deed says, and mark it on the ground for you.

    Everything else is speculation and guess work.

     

    Your Welcome,

    Dougie

     

     

     


    I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!
  • dmyhill

    dmyhill

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 10:07 pm

    $7,500-$10,000 and a surveyor and all those lines will be marked.

    The above answers should demonstrate that your question is not to be answered without additional work.

    Pro tip: talk to your neighbors, and see if any of them have had a survey done in the last few years. It could speed things up. 


    -All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
  • dmyhill

    dmyhill

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 10:10 pm

    40 acres exact is also not the area a survey would show. Looks like a beautiful piece of land. 

     

    Always curious when a person claims they have X amount of acres, but they haven’t had a survey or seen a survey, or even called a surveyor.

    How would they know how many acres they have? The real estate agent? 

     


    -All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
  • RADAR

    RADAR

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 10:25 pm

    How would they know how many acres they have? The real estate agent? 

    County Records; always accurate; never wrong…

    GIF


    I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!
  • MightyMoe

    MightyMoe

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 11:07 pm

    40 acres exact is also not the area a survey would show. Looks like a beautiful piece of land. 

     

    Always curious when a person claims they have X amount of acres, but they haven’t had a survey or seen a survey, or even called a surveyor.

    How would they know how many acres they have? The real estate agent? 

     

    Surveys sometimes can’t change the legal acreages. That’s why the giant BLM dependent resurveys hit a brick wall when they did them in the PRB and tried to change the acreages they were charging for minerals (they got around that by relotting all the 40s with numbers and saying the lots only pertain to their mineral estate, not to the already patented surface land).

    If you have a record 40 acres you should be able to stand your ground claiming your land as 40 acres. The local planning department ran into that when they tried to deny sales of two 40’s cause they didn’t survey as 80 acres which was the minimum. Nope!!

    They can’t do it, it’s 80 acres legally even if it surveys as 78.5.

    I also got involved with this question over land transactions between a big rancher who was a long time local attorney and a corporation buying up some of the ranch. He wouldn’t let the title people change the acreages of the grants to the survey acreages. Turns out the old attorney was correct. 

     

     

  • jitterboogie

    jitterboogie

    Member
    April 27, 2023 at 11:28 pm

    @mightymoe 

    even a blind old squirrel will dig up a few nuts once in a while  

  • Norm

    Norm

    Member
    April 28, 2023 at 2:51 pm

    How would they know how many acres they have? The real estate agent? 

    By looking at the original government survey I suppose. 

  • dmyhill

    dmyhill

    Member
    April 28, 2023 at 6:28 pm

    Surveys sometimes can’t change the legal acreages.

    Of course, but then we find ourselves in the Clintonesque what is “is” stage of the discussion.

    A quarter of a quarter is considered 40 acres no matter in the jurisdictions I have worked in regardless of how many square feet I found.

    And of course if the old homesteader sold you “the south 40 acres” as the first sale of his property, no doubt you should get 40 acres (insert exceptions to this statement here). 

     

    By looking at the original government survey I suppose. 

    And of course this is true, as they are without error.


    -All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
  • T Ford

    T Ford

    Member
    April 28, 2023 at 7:29 pm

    Quarter line.  The road is obviously in the wrong place.

  • MightyMoe

    MightyMoe

    Member
    April 28, 2023 at 8:12 pm

    @dmyhill 

    It’s a touchy surveying subject, we all want to determine precise acreages for clients. However, record acreages often should be respected. In this case there are 40 acres which was probably created using 1/2 of two different 40 acre tracts and doubtfully it wasn’t patented that way. Once record tracts get split up the legally defined acreages can lose their “authority”. 

  • Norm

    Norm

    Member
    April 28, 2023 at 9:11 pm

    The abbreviated description from county is W 1/2 OF W 1/2 OF NE 1/4 SEC 18. BLM patent was 1879 W 1/2 OF NE 1/4 SEC 18 containing 80 acres. 

  • MightyMoe

    MightyMoe

    Member
    April 28, 2023 at 9:36 pm

    @norm 

    Section 18 looks really big too, hopefully all the extra lands were placed in the lots along the west township line. 

  • Champ7ac

    Champ7ac

    Member
    May 10, 2023 at 7:33 pm

    @dmyhill 

    The property across the road has been surveyed.

    The. ROW is 66ft. +-33ft.

    When maeasuring from the surveyed monuments, i’m seeing 42 ft to the road center.

    That would put the quarterline at the road shoulder. 

    Though the survey depicts the road center and quarterline as the same, it is not.

    The road does not parallel the quarterline.

    1. Thanks for your response.

       

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