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Need a surveyor in Georgia
Need a surveyor in Georgia
Hi everyone. I am looking for a surveyor licensed in GA who is knowledgeable with boundary issues. We are in south GA, Thomasville, which is about 20 miles north of Tallahassee, FL. It seems most of the surveyors who post in the forums here are very informed, competent professionals & that’s the kind of surveyor I desperately need. My property issue is a long, complicated situation. I’m not sure how much info I should include here & apologize if too lengthy. Our lot is a lake front lot we purchased in 1995. The original S/D plat was done in 1983 & the surveyors are now deceased. We had our house built on the lot in 1998. A survey done in 1998 before construction began placed 3 of the property’s lot lines in different locations & also placed a new corner pin in the back yard at a different location even though the original corner & pin was found where is was suppose to be. The new corner pin this surveyor placed right in the middle of our back yard a good distance from the lake shoreline where the original corner pin is. The survey was never filed & no one gave it much attention. Our home builder used the original 4 corners to construct the house. We had another survey done with a different surveyor after the house construction was completed. He found & used the 4 original corners on his survey which was filed in the county records. All previous owners of our lot & all owners of our neighboring lots have always recognized the same original corners & lot lines without question. And that includes our neighbor to the right when they bought the lot/house next to us in 2009. In 2012 those neighbors refinanced & had a survey done of their property. For some reason that surveyor used the 1998 corner pin in the middle of our yard as a property corner instead of using the original corner pin which was still in place. We were aware of this not because anyone informed us but because 2 long wooden stakes with pink flags were placed there. We then had our own survey done to verify our corners & verify the pins were in place which they were. What we didn’t know at that time was that our neighbor mistakenly believed her new 2012 survey gave her ownership of that part of our property. For the next 7 years the neighbor did not in any way try to claim that piece of property, nor did they use it or treat it as if they did own it, nor did they ever try to discuss it with us. About 3 years ago these neighbors moved across town & their house has sat vacant since. So we did not believe there was a boundary problem when we went to install a fence in Feb. 2019. The very day the fence crew was starting to put up the fence our neighbor happened to be at her house next door. When she saw the fence crew she confronted them & told them to stop their work because that was her property. The fence work was halted & we hired an attorney not knowing what to do. The fence crew, our lawn guy, & our handyman all used their metal detectors around the area we believed the original pin was but the pin could not be located so we assumed it had been lost. Our attorney thought the lost corner pin was a huge problem & without it we could end up losing a portion of our property. Also our neighbor told our attorney that they were going to be selling the house & they believed they could get more money in the sale with the addition of part of our property. Following the advise of our attorney, who thought we had to have the lost pin replaced, we had several surveyors survey our lot. Each & every one of their measurements found our lot lines & corner to be the exact same of the 1998 survey that placed the new corner in the middle of the yard. So none of them were willing to put a pin back in the original corner. And I guess none of them seemed to notice the odd location of this corner in a much established yard. And nobody seemed to be aware that state code, county code, & our S/D covenants all state that boundaries on a lake lot go all the way to the lake’s shoreline, just as every other lake lot on the street does. On top of that I could not get one surveyor to talk with me or give me any explanation of their work. I was left clueless as to the problem with our lot. Our attorney seemed to think we were screwed unless we could get a surveyor to place a new pin in the original corner. By this time I had gained a good bit of knowledge regarding property law & owner rights & realized the land professionals around this area were doing everything wrong & nobody was going to correct it. Having zero trust for any of them & not knowing how to proceed without going to court I hired an expert consultant, Jeff Lucas, to help figure out the mess. From the documents I sent him he discovered that our lot lines on the original S/D plat done in 1983 lined up perfectly with the 1998 survey done pre-construction. The line between us & our neighbor that cuts off a good portion of our property does end right at the 1998 pin placed in the middle of the yard. However our 4 original corners & the pins placed in 1983 were all placed correctly. In other words, the 1983 plat’s lot lines do not connect the 4 original corners on our lot. Obviously some kind of error was made when platting our property’s lot lines. We also discovered that 1983 plat was not actually performed by the surveyor whose name is on it but was done by an assistant he had recently hired with very little surveying experience. After consulting with Mr. Lucas I got a $15, plastic metal detector described as a child’s toy from Amazon & using some of Mr. Lucas’ calculations I located the original corner with the original pin still in place, undisturbed. It was just a few feet away from the area we thought was the corner with missing pin & it still lines up perfectly with what has always been believed to be the lot line. This must mean that all those surveyors we paid over the past year never even looked for the original corner pin. It was there all along. If I found it with a $15 plastic toy how did not one of the surveyors find it? I am beyond frustrated, disgusted, & fed up. This is why I need a knowledgeable, competent surveyor. My property has all 4 original corners & monument pins undisturbed & always has. I’m not sure what kind of survey work we need but I’m sure it will be much more than the average survey. I do know (& our attorney agrees) we need a surveyor to verify the corners & to correct the lot lines so they connect those corners, which are the same lines we’ve always used as the property’s lot lines. For the past 15 months I have gathered every piece of information & documents pertaining to this that a surveyor may need. I also have a long list of proof showing where the original corners & lines have always been with evidence to back it up. Also our other neighbor on our left used to own our lot & is who we bought the lot from in 1995. Both he & his wife can verify our lot’s corners & boundaries. I’m aware this will not be a typical lot survey & won’t be cheap. I have no problem paying for an expensive survey to someone who knows what they are doing. I say this just so you all know I’m not the average client who expects complicated, time consuming survey work to be inexpensive. Remember I’ve spent the past year reading your forums, haha. If any one may be interested I’d be more than willing to answer any questions, give more info or send any documents you may want to look over before committing. Or if anyone knows of a surveyor that may be available you can refer me to I’d be grateful. Thank you to all of you for this website, especially the forums. They have been invaluable to me in becoming informed with all things land/property. Thanks for your time.
Lea
- 10 Replies
“I hired an expert consultant, Jeff Lucas, to help figure out the mess.”
Jeff Lucas is one of the most recognizable names in the survey world, and is an attorney as well. Can’t he straighten things out?
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However our 4 original corners & the pins placed in 1983 were all placed correctly.
What makes you say this? Were you there in 1983? Didn’t you say it was done by an incompetent new guy?
Something doesn’t smell right, here; I know you live by the water, but this smells fishy; like another surveyor trying to stir the pot. The first thing is; that was extremely hard to read. My guess is; it was a cut and paste from a word document. It would’ve been a lot easier, if it was broken up in to paragraphs. And secondly; you may have read through a lot of posts on this board, but your bottom line is self satisfying.
If your story is legit, you’re going to have a hard time getting a good surveyor to stand with you on your side of the fence. A good surveyor knows; he’s not showing you where YOUR line is, he’s showing you where the line is that you share with your neighbor. If you think you can keep hiring surveyors until you find one to agree with you, you could be at it a while. You mentioned that you hired Jeff Lucas; he is the top of his game, in your area. If he can’t help you, nobody can.
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!
Maybe get a recommendation from Jeff Lucas. I’m not licensed down there. But, I’d want to sit at a round table with Jeff Lucas, and you, and anybody else. Knowing what I’m are getting into is important to me. And to you. Is this a surveyor posing? I don’t know. I don’t care. It does not really change the issues. Maybe that “original” corner is just an old traverse point. Or, maybe it is some sort of old assumption corner. Keep in mind, “anything is possible”. Is the Original Poster ready to accept that they may be wrong? Or, if the 1983 corner is real, that the judge may not agree?
Anything’s possible.
Say, could @Lea, you post pics of some of these surveys? The armchair generals, and internet jockeys just might pull up a LOAD of additional information. And, that could be significant.
N
Another way to argue the case instead of “which was intended” would be “which was accepted by the landowners for a long time.” Is there an acquiescence statute in your state? If owners on both sides accepted a definite line or corners for the required period of time, then you might have a case. It isn’t clear from your description that the accepted line was this definite, however, if it was unmarked and hard to find a corner pin.
The other standard advice is that it is often cheaper to buy the disputed strip than to fight in court, where you may lose, and no one really wins but the lawyers.
.Another clarification is needed. If a survey put the corner in the middle of your yard frontage, where does that put the next corners of the adjoiner lots? Is everybody off, or is the width of a lot in question?
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Unfortunately for you, your neighbor can’t sell something they don’t own. I don’t see any proof the original subdividing surveyor set the “original” pins. How do we know the neighbor didn’t set them? You should have had a survey before you purchased. You did have a survey before you built, but you ignored it. Another surveyor is not going to be helpful in this case. There are various legal actions you could take with an attorney, but I don’t see much promise in your gaining anything from it (based only on what you posted). You might have had some type of action on the warranty deed against the neighbor, but now too much time has probably passed since you became aware of the problem. You might also have some sort of unwritten title claim at this point, but that’s complicated and not enough information. The only thing a surveyor could do at this point is locate the pin and verify it is there now, and you conveniently found it when others with no interest in the outcome could not. Not saying you aren’t telling the truth, but you and the neighbor who owned it before will have credibility issues with the judge or jury. Sorry can’t be more positive on your chances, but you should know what you’re up against.
That’s a bit out of my work area. Go to SAMSOG.org and use the find a surveyor tool. When I’m hired to help.with a dispute, I like to ask both property owners at the same time “Are you prepared to be wrong?”
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose
How much are we talking about? 2 feet? 50 feet?
20 feet north and 30 feet east?
Its memorial day weekend. So, maybe some here can chime in. The 1983 survey mark, which is
Correct
Original
Gives you more land
Was not in dispute
And that you used to build your house/occupy your land.
Could you describe it? And post a pic of it?
Also, it appears that there is a “significant material discrepancy” between the “original” and the later pin (in your backyard). Has anybody performed a retracement of both lots, on each side of you? Has anybody retraced all, or most of the 1983 survey? And
We’re there other discrepancies?
And, is it possible that:
The original survey was performed, and set the stake in your backyard, and that a neighborhood kid was sword fighting with the wood stake, over this “backyard” pin, and hid his sword down by the waters edge. And, is it possible that you liked this location better, and “went alo,g” with it, without benefit of a survey? And, you are now trying to claim this property, given to you, via neighborhood kids need for a “light sabre”? And, that there in a minimum lot size restriction, and if your “original” stake is used, that it makes the lots non compliant with size restrictions?
Have you got a surveyor to consider ALL aspects?
How much does neighbor want for his house and lot? Are we talking 1.5 million, or 59k?
Thank you,
N
Another comment. Is your lot up against the dividing line between 2 subdivisions? Or, is your lot out in the middle, where the 1983 survey laid out the lots on both sides of yours?
These issues could affect this situation. A well informed populace, a well informed surveyor, and a well informed judge, can put a big load of reality into this situation.
It needs a truckload of reality.
We can go FROM there.
N
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