Can this be done? We have an RPLS at our company that says it is possible to use a Trimble base station with a Leica rover. Will their be some software issues and connection problems with pairing the two and will the Leica be able to pick up the radio signal and compute a RTK position? Does anyone have any input regarding this matter? I think he has been drinking the kool-aid and is living in a fantasy land.
King Cobra,
In common practice yes, the denominators between different brands of GPS/GNSS receivers are the RTK Messaging formats. RTCM V3 RTK data format is the common ground. (RTCM V3 is ASCII format data), used by all modern GPS/GNSS receivers these days.
Trimble RTK Base units default to output sCMRx, CMRx, CMR+, CMR, RTK corrections, but can also output RTCM V3 RTK corrections.
Leica RTK Base units default to LB2 RTK formats, but can also output RTCM V3 RTK corrections.
Trimble RTK Rovers can be set to receive RTCM V3 corrections.
Leica RTK Rovers can be set to receive RTCMV3 RTK corrections.
The second technical issue is the telemetry devices used by the RTK Base station equipment and the RTK Rover equipment,
The choices are most commonly UHF radios, less so for Spread Spectrum radios and/or Cellular modems. UHF radios can be programmed to play with one another. Spread Spectrum radios data links are License Free, but very proprietary. You cannot mix different brands of Spread Spectrum radio data links, they will NOT talk to each other in my experience.
For most Smart Antenna GPS/GNSS equipment designs offered by Trimble, Leica (and others), the Internal UHF radio modules can programmed to support
several Bandwidths, (12.5 Kz and 25 Kz), Several different "Over the Air Link Rates", Several different Modulations, (GMSK, FSK), Several different Protocols like (TrimTalk 450S, Transparent with EOT Timeout).
Most knowledgeable dealer representatives and their technical support staff know how to properly configure the UHF Radio equipment to enable GPS/GNSS receivers from different manufacturers to work together. It's a very common thing these days. Ask them for help configuring your GPS/GNSS equipment.
Using Smart Antennas from different GPS/Glonass manufactures with Internal GSM modems and Internal CDMA modems introduces some new wrinkles
but typically, the Internal GSM modems and Internal CDMA modems are used more commonly by the RTK Rovers to make connections to RTK Networks offered by most State DOT's and commercial based subscription RTK providers like Trimble VRSNow, Leica SpiderNetworks and Topcon TopNet Networks.
Long answer, but entirely doable, possible, pretty common stuff these days.
Good luck, Bob LeMoine,Technical Sales + Support, Satlab Geosolutions, B-)
Love that Bob is on here now. A true expert in the field.
In action. I use a Geomax Zenith 25 (essentially a Leica GS14) as a base with a Spectra Precision Epoch 50 (essentially a Trimbe R8-3).
If you use the Trimble R10 as a base, you might have to use two data collectors as it can only be ran with Trimble Access and Trimble Access can't be used with anything other than Trimble's GPS receivers. It's frustrating.
Actually if you use an R10 as a base you can configure it with any smartphone, tablet, or laptop using a WiFi connection to the Web UI. You don't ever NEED a data collector to configure an R10 as a base. Another case of Trimble bashing by someone who doesn't know Trimble products.
Lee D, post: 339858, member: 7971 wrote: Actually if you use an R10 as a base you can configure it with any smartphone, tablet, or laptop using a WiFi connection to the Web UI. You don't ever NEED a data collector to configure an R10 as a base. Another case of Trimble bashing by someone who doesn't know Trimble products.
Lee, I have a friend that lives in Houma, next time I'm down in Louisiana, I'll have to stop by to meet you, say hello, shop talk, lolB-)
King Cobra, post: 339783, member: 10295 wrote: Can this be done? We have an RPLS at our company that says it is possible to use a Trimble base station with a Leica rover. Will their be some software issues and connection problems with pairing the two and will the Leica be able to pick up the radio signal and compute a RTK position? Does anyone have any input regarding this matter? I think he has been drinking the kool-aid and is living in a fantasy land.
Trimble base here supplying RTCM v3.0 corrections over internet (NTRIP).
This is to Leica and Trimble machine control. One thing I have noticed / been told is that the Leica machine control does not know the correct antenna phase offset for the Trimble antenna and instead substitutes zero. I think the solution to this is to specify the antenna height to the "phase center" of the antenna when broadcasting.
Awesome I'd enjoy that.
Yes we have done it with a Trimble 4600 and a Leica 1200. You just need a radio on the Leica and a radio on the Trimble.
I have done it with leica as the base. It sounds like you've gotten the communication advice you need.
My only problem was nailing down good antenna relationships. Eventually I determined my own constants for the vertical offset. It was nearly a centimeter different than the model on the NGS site. I have had the same issue with other strange combinations...
Lee D, post: 339858, member: 7971 wrote: Actually if you use an R10 as a base you can configure it with any smartphone, tablet, or laptop using a WiFi connection to the Web UI. You don't ever NEED a data collector to configure an R10 as a base. Another case of Trimble bashing by someone who doesn't know Trimble products.
Lee I don't think he was bashing Trimble, not many people know about the many options of the R10. Graves uses Trimble equipment as well.
Point taken. It amazes me that the dealer wouldn't have at least mentioned that.
RTCM protocols were invented for what you are trying to accomplish, although most systems will also use CMR & CMR+ which originally were Trimble proprietary formats but now are public. The problem with CMR is that it will not carry Glonass satellites.
Lee D, post: 339858, member: 7971 wrote: Actually if you use an R10 as a base you can configure it with any smartphone, tablet, or laptop using a WiFi connection to the Web UI. You don't ever NEED a data collector to configure an R10 as a base. Another case of Trimble bashing by someone who doesn't know Trimble products.
Funny guy. I definitely wasn't Trimble bashing. I use a Trimble S3 every day of my life and I love it. The Spectra Epoch 50 is nearly a Trimble R8-3 as Trimble owns Spectra. Maybe you shouldn't quite jump off a cliff to a conclusion.
I did not know that the R10 could be configured that way. My pockets are not quite deep enough to afford one.
Jason Graves, post: 340209, member: 9531 wrote: Maybe you shouldn't quite jump off a cliff to a conclusion.
No, I shouldn't, as noted two posts up. I'm a little jaded from both a long career in tech support and from some of the comments that are made here about Trimble from people who obviously don't use it and know nothing about it. As I would tell certain folks with whom I had a good enough relationship to be blunt about it, "It can't do this" and "I don't know how to do this" are not the same thing.
In the interest of full disclosure, I've only been working for a surveying company for the last 26 months, and we're a Trimble shop. Prior to coming here, I was in sales/training/tech support for about 22 years, the last nine of which were for a Trimble dealer; prior to that I was a dyed-in-the-wool Leica guy, I worked for Leica direct for six years and for dealers for another seven. I've been to Trimble's Certified Trainer school twice, and I not only use TBC every day but support 30 field crews running Access. I try to help people on here who have questions about Trimble issues or GPS in general, but there are so many knowledgeable people on this board that someone generally beats me to it.
