Since the date problem with the Trimble 4700 I've been reluctant to use the receivers. I got a R8 system from a friend to do some work. Trying to evaluate my options. I do some static work and so I suppose I'm dead there, I might try the fixthatdate program.
I decided to see what the 4700 RTK would do. So I started a 4700 base and then a 4700 rover. I went back and checked into some markers I had set with the R8. The 4700 seems to be working as it always has. I checked the files on the measurements I made and the date/time is OK in the file/record.
I haven't heard anyone talking about the 4700 not working RTK. I called the local Trimble dealer and the salesman wasn't aware of the problem and there is still quite a few 4700's out there. If they had stopped working I'm sure the Trimble dealer would have heard from their customers. Since they haven't I expect there are a lot of 4700 RTK users out there that don't even know there is an issue.
I know I'm going to need to update to modern equipment but would like to do it under my time/terms.
So can anyone else comment on issues/problems with the Trimble 4700 in RTK mode?
If there is a drop dead 4700 RTK date TRIMBLE should let us know when it is. A decent trade in program would probably convince me do it and stay with Trimble!
LRDay, post: 362903, member: 571 wrote: Since the date problem with the Trimble 4700 I've been reluctant to use the receivers. I got a R8 system from a friend to do some work. Trying to evaluate my options. I do some static work and so I suppose I'm dead there, I might try the fixthatdate program.
I decided to see what the 4700 RTK would do. So I started a 4700 base and then a 4700 rover. I went back and checked into some markers I had set with the R8. The 4700 seems to be working as it always has. I checked the files on the measurements I made and the date/time is OK in the file/record.
I haven't heard anyone talking about the 4700 not working RTK. I called the local Trimble dealer and the salesman wasn't aware of the problem and there is still quite a few 4700's out there. If they had stopped working I'm sure the Trimble dealer would have heard from their customers. Since they haven't I expect there are a lot of 4700 RTK users out there that don't even know there is an issue.
I know I'm going to need to update to modern equipment but would like to do it under my time/terms.
So can anyone else comment on issues/problems with the Trimble 4700 in RTK mode?
If there is a drop dead 4700 RTK date TRIMBLE should let us know when it is. A decent trade in program would probably convince me do it and stay with Trimble!
I tested my 4700, it still works great as my RTK base with my 5800, the issue is that as a static unit it doesn't work recording in the reciever, but it does work if you record to the controller,,,,,
You just need to update your firmware to make it work as a static unit,,,,,so I hear,,,,but you probably need to pay for the privilege
MightyMoe, post: 362926, member: 700 wrote: I tested my 4700, it still works great as my RTK base with my 5800, the issue is that as a static unit it doesn't work recording in the reciever, but it does work if you record to the controller,,,,,
You just need to update your firmware to make it work as a static unit,,,,,so I hear,,,,but you probably need to pay for the privilege
My 4700's have logged thousands of static sessions on the receiver. I've never tried to log to the controller. I'll need to see if I can do that on a TSC2. That would be great, just won't be able to RTK and do static at the same time as I only have one TSC2. Could buy a TSC3 to go along with a future R8 or R10 but you get a better deal when you purchase a whole package.
I just hadn't planned to buy new stuff this year, actually more than half the year is dedicated to other the survey/engineer stuff. A new $40,000 purchase just won't cash flow this year. The value of this gear burns fast. Half life valve is about 2 years. 6 years out it might still work fine but you can't sell it for anything. I've certainly got my money out of the 4700's, just sort of been crusing easy for about 10 years, they worked OK and cost me about nothing. Didn't need to work extra hard to pay for gear. Now I'm not sure at my age that working a year just to pay for gear is worth the years I have left. Of course if the gear quits I can't work any more years, at least as a surveyor.
Going to log a static session to the controller at the shop tonight. See if OPUS will take it in a couple days.
THANKS!!
LRDay, post: 362933, member: 571 wrote: Could buy a TSC3
A TSC1 with Survey Controller will log static data from a 4700, and they're pretty cheap these days. $300 or less on eBay.
Here is the first part of the Rinex converted from the controller logged file. Looks like the dates are OK. I'll know after I can OPUS.
2.11 OBSERVATION DATA GPS(GPS) RINEX VERSION / TYPE
cnvtToRINEX 2.29.0 convertToRINEX OPR 18-Mar-16 05:49 UTC PGM / RUN BY / DATE
----------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT
SHOP1 MARKER NAME
MARKER NUMBER
GNSS Observer Trimble OBSERVER / AGENCY
20135441 4700 1.30 REC # / TYPE / VERS
TRM22020.00+GP ANT # / TYPE
-1799830.2125 -4578292.8676 4048892.1289 APPROX POSITION XYZ
0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 ANTENNA: DELTA H/E/N
1 1 0 WAVELENGTH FACT L1/2
4 C1 L1 L2 P2 # / TYPES OF OBSERV
2016 3 18 1 33 30.0000000 GPS TIME OF FIRST OBS
2016 3 18 5 9 0.0000000 GPS TIME OF LAST OBS
0 RCV CLOCK OFFS APPL
17 LEAP SECONDS
14 # OF SATELLITES
G01 195 195 195 195 PRN / # OF OBS
G02 237 236 236 236 PRN / # OF OBS
G06 371 370 369 369 PRN / # OF OBS
G07 61 61 61 61 PRN / # OF OBS
G11 92 92 92 92 PRN / # OF OBS
G12 225 225 225 225 PRN / # OF OBS
G13 217 216 216 216 PRN / # OF OBS
G15 216 215 215 215 PRN / # OF OBS
G17 432 431 431 431 PRN / # OF OBS
G19 432 431 431 431 PRN / # OF OBS
G24 340 338 338 338 PRN / # OF OBS
G25 45 44 45 45 PRN / # OF OBS
G28 407 406 406 406 PRN / # OF OBS
G30 207 206 206 206 PRN / # OF OBS
CARRIER PHASE MEASUREMENTS: PHASE SHIFTS REMOVED COMMENT
END OF HEADER
16 3 18 1 33 30.0000000 0 9G01G07G11G13G15G17G19G28G30
22521321.17216 -12509267.52516 -9738810.26158 22521320.52358
22746666.30516 1949052.59116 1542913.44858 22746661.10958
22624688.07016 -15667764.96216 -12200453.53258 22624683.99258
21720367.15617 -17215943.20217 -13404154.04158 21720363.34058
23787192.67216 -4451574.97016 -3455863.64957 23787189.27757
20781015.07817 -22611112.57817 -17605111.95659 20781011.18459
22421024.30516 -12886465.59716 -10025825.11258 22421019.58658
20875712.18817 -22845389.82917 -17790352.57559 20875707.54359
20862178.70317 -18082062.38717 -14070251.49459 20862176.75459
16 3 18 1 34 0.0000000 0 9G01G07G11G13G15G17G19G28G30
22518711.898 6 -12522980.044 6 -9749495.31948 22518710.76648
22762791.156 6 2033793.765 6 1608945.50648 22762787.44148
22633029.781 6 -15623928.071 6 -12166294.90548 22633025.95348
21722691.000 7 -17203731.421 7 -13394638.38648 21722686.69548
23780172.805 6 -4488465.065 6 -3484609.15448 23780169.36748
20771378.633 7 -22661754.157 7 -17644572.88549 20771374.18049
22399629.438 6 -12998899.005 6 -10113435.53048 22399624.16448
20875111.563 7 -22848547.030 7 -17792812.72849 20875106.82849
20871052.711 7 -18035429.366 7 -14033914.08749 20871050.21549
16 3 18 1 34 30.0000000 0 9G01G07G11G13G15G17G19G28G30
Jim Frame, post: 362957, member: 10 wrote: A TSC1 with Survey Controller will log static data from a 4700, and they're pretty cheap these days. $300 or less on eBay.
I have two dead TSC1's, they just quit one day. I might consider another TSC2 but nothing older than that.
LRDay, post: 362959, member: 571 wrote: I have two dead TSC1's, they just quit one day.
Displays dark, or displays okay but software won't load or run?
Jim Frame, post: 362993, member: 10 wrote: Displays dark, or displays okay but software won't load or run?
Just won't boot up. Screens might have quit working. One stopped working a couple years before the other. I bought them both new in 1999. Last one died two years ago.
Seems I'm OK, got an early OPUS return.
FILE: 84180780.16o OP1458308471532
2005 NOTE: The IGS precise and IGS rapid orbits were not available
2005 at processing time. The IGS ultra-rapid orbit was/will be used to
2005 process the data.
2005
NGS OPUS SOLUTION REPORT
========================
All computed coordinate accuracies are listed as peak-to-peak values.
For additional information: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/OPUS/about.jsp#accuracy
USER: lrday@xxxxxxxx.com DATE: March 18, 2016
RINEX FILE: 8418078b.16o TIME: 13:41:42 UTC
SOFTWARE: page5 1209.04 master90.pl 022814 START: 2016/03/18 01:33:00
EPHEMERIS: igu18885.eph [ultra-rapid] STOP: 2016/03/18 05:09:00
NAV FILE: brdc0780.16n OBS USED: 7202 / 7865 : 92%
ANT NAME: TRM22020.00+GP NONE # FIXED AMB: 48 / 50 : 96%
ARP HEIGHT: 0.001 OVERALL RMS: 0.012(m)
REF FRAME: NAD_83(2011)(EPOCH:2010.0000) IGS08 (EPOCH:2016.2108)
X: -1799830.196(m) 0.011(m) -1799831.059(m) 0.011(m)
Y: -4578292.877(m) 0.017(m) -4578291.580(m) 0.017(m)
Z: 4048892.138(m) 0.011(m) 4048892.046(m) 0.011(m)
LAT: 39 38 42.16790 0.005(m) 39 38 42.18404 0.005(m)
E LON: 248 32 20.72774 0.005(m) 248 32 20.67417 0.005(m)
W LON: 111 27 39.27226 0.005(m) 111 27 39.32583 0.005(m)
EL HGT: 1842.152(m) 0.021(m) 1841.407(m) 0.021(m)
ORTHO HGT: 1859.003(m) 0.039(m) [NAVD88 (Computed using GEOID12B)]
UTM COORDINATES STATE PLANE COORDINATES
UTM (Zone 12) SPC (4302 UT C)
Northing (Y) [meters] 4388463.564 2145625.093
Easting (X) [meters] 460453.917 503355.033
Convergence [degrees] -0.29407736 0.02504088
Point Scale 0.99961925 0.99990429
Combined Factor 0.99933044 0.99961540
US NATIONAL GRID DESIGNATOR: 12SVJ6045388463(NAD 83)
BASE STATIONS USED
PID DESIGNATION LATITUDE LONGITUDE DISTANCE(m)
DL3522 MC06 MACK CORS ARP N391321.091 W1085105.904 229527.5
DF8974 ZLC1 SALT LAKE WAAS 1 CORS ARP N404709.739 W1115707.785 133448.2
AJ8478 MYT2 MYTON 2 CORS ARP N400609.568 W1100254.602 131112.0
NEAREST NGS PUBLISHED CONTROL POINT
KN0180 SS 42 N393757. W1112634. 2088.8
Leon,
I use a 4800 base all the time with no issues - static (recorded on TSC2) and RTK. To my knowledge, the "date" problem was only related to TGO, not the receivers or controllers. If you are using TBC, you should be good to go as you were before.
But then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding your problem............
Brian Allen, post: 363005, member: 1333 wrote: Leon,
I use a 4800 base all the time with no issues - static (recorded on TSC2) and RTK. To my knowledge, the "date" problem was only related to TGO, not the receivers or controllers. If you are using TBC, you should be good to go as you were before.
But then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding your problem............
I have latest up to date TBC. So maybe I took the Trimble notice to seriously. I'll log a current static to a 4700 receiver and see if it will process in OPUS and TBC.
You can send .DAT directly to OPUS but I had to convert to RINEX the .to2 file I logged to the TSC2.
I really liked the R8's I used from my past partner. A lot quicker than the 4700's. Ony one of the R8's was GNSS (Rusky SV's) so didn't get to see how much that helped. I need to make plans to get some new stuff. If anything dies on me now I don't have a backup, so I'm working on borrowed time. I probably should start banking half my fees towards new gear. I'm old enough that getting rid of the back packed 4700 and battery would help my health also. Downhill and level fine climbing slopes getting steeper every year.
Thanks!
Brian Allen, post: 363005, member: 1333 wrote: Leon,
I use a 4800 base all the time with no issues - static (recorded on TSC2) and RTK. To my knowledge, the "date" problem was only related to TGO, not the receivers or controllers. If you are using TBC, you should be good to go as you were before.
But then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding your problem............
Brian, this is a new issue, just a few weeks some trimble receivers hit a wall and now think they are in 1996, the 4700, 5700 and 4800's were effected and now can't do static, I think if you kept up with firmware you may be ok
Here's the service announcement that was posted earlier:
TRIMBLE 4700/4800 GPS RECEIVERS
WILL STOP WORKING PROPERLY STARTING FEBRUARY 14, 2016
Summary
On February 14, 2016, Trimble 4700 and 4800 GPS receivers, that are long obsolete and end of service, will start
experiencing erratic and unreliable behavior for time and date reporting. As those receivers will interpret the GPS
time in error by 1024 weeks, receiver data outputs will have the wrong time reference. This will negatively impact
subsequent systems that are communicating with that receiver, including the rejection of data packages. Real-Time
Kinematic operation (RTK) operation is not expected to continue working properly.
Newer Trimble GPS/GNSS receivers types, including Trimble 5700/R5/R7/NetR9 Geospatial/NetRS/NetR5, Trimble
5800/R2/R4/R6/R8/R8s/R10/R10LT with current firmware are not impacted by this.
Resolution
Unfortunately, there is no technical solution available for for Trimble 4700 and 4800 GPS receivers to correct this
issue. For Trimble 4700/4800 GPS receivers still in use, please work with the end-user on a receiver replacement
solution towards a new or more recent GNSS receiver system
Thanks Jim, I haven't seen that notice, now Leon's post makes more sense. I haven't seen any problems with my 4800 base/5700 rover/TSC1 controller recently running RTK, but I haven't run a static session since before Feb 14. I guess I know what I'm doing Monday.
Here is a RINEX from a 4700 logged session done today (March 18,2016). File says 8/2/1996 on the TSC2.
Look at the times highlighted.
2.11 OBSERVATION DATA GPS(GPS) RINEX VERSION / TYPE
cnvtToRINEX 2.29.0 convertToRINEX OPR 19-Mar-16 04:26 UTC PGM / RUN BY / DATE
----------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT
SHOP1 MARKER NAME
MARKER NUMBER
GNSS Observer Trimble OBSERVER / AGENCY
220135441 4700 1.30 REC # / TYPE / VERS
TRM22020.00+GP ANT # / TYPE
-1799830.0421 -4578289.6803 4048890.8698 APPROX POSITION XYZ
0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 ANTENNA: DELTA H/E/N
1 1 0 WAVELENGTH FACT L1/2
4 C1 L1 L2 P2 # / TYPES OF OBSERV
1996 8 2 21 49 30.0000000 GPS TIME OF FIRST OBS
1996 8 3 3 33 0.0000000 GPS TIME OF LAST OBS
0 RCV CLOCK OFFS APPL
11 LEAP SECONDS
19 # OF SATELLITES
G01 395 395 395 395 PRN / # OF OBS
G02 53 53 53 53 PRN / # OF OBS
G05 188 186 188 188 PRN / # OF OBS
G06 187 187 187 187 PRN / # OF OBS
G07 500 500 500 500 PRN / # OF OBS
G08 361 361 361 361 PRN / # OF OBS
G09 300 300 300 300 PRN / # OF OBS
G11 438 438 438 438 PRN / # OF OBS
G12 40 40 40 40 PRN / # OF OBS
G13 487 487 487 487 PRN / # OF OBS
G15 294 293 293 293 PRN / # OF OBS
G16 60 60 60 60 PRN / # OF OBS
G17 487 487 487 487 PRN / # OF OBS
G19 350 350 350 350 PRN / # OF OBS
G23 168 168 168 168 PRN / # OF OBS
G24 154 154 154 154 PRN / # OF OBS
G27 222 222 222 222 PRN / # OF OBS
G28 688 688 688 688 PRN / # OF OBS
G30 647 647 647 647 PRN / # OF OBS
CARRIER PHASE MEASUREMENTS: PHASE SHIFTS REMOVED COMMENT
END OF HEADER
96 8 2 21 49 30.0000000 0 8G07G08G09G16G23G27G28G30
20947514.58617 -315917.56417 -235007.35759 20947511.30559
22024771.55517 -410932.41717 -305290.78558 22024771.40658
20133022.06318 -13909.46318 -14020.38459 20133020.79359
23486791.01615 490539.35915 354388.57657 23486788.20357
21188096.25817 305202.34317 213752.64859 21188090.40259
22155075.38316 -96637.03416 -73556.56558 22155074.56358
24271488.10915 -140719.36915 -104111.87556 24271487.24656
22642994.58616 -485664.35216 -360317.59158 22642994.18858
96 8 2 21 50 0.0000000 0 8G07G08G09G16G23G27G28G30
20937045.938 7 -370929.178 7 -277873.55049 20937042.97749
22011228.063 7 -482106.325 7 -360750.95548 22011227.55948
20132911.594 7 -14491.279 7 -14473.76249 20132909.80149
23503985.703 5 580899.321 5 424798.89447 23503983.32447
21198769.727 7 361293.145 7 257459.71949 21198764.43849
22152273.148 6 -111364.413 6 -85032.44948 22152272.25448
24250405.352 5 -251507.432 5 -190439.92746 24250404.86746
22626716.359 6 -571204.991 6 -426972.59748 22626716.03548
96 8 2 21 50 30.0000000 0 8G07G08G09G16G23G27G28G30
20926628.375 7 -425675.154 7 -320532.74849 20926624.77049
21997788.031 7 -552733.737 7 -415785.27848 21997787.25048
20132918.742 7 -14453.665 7 -14444.46649 20132916.85949
23521219.383 5 671459.782 5 495365.41447 23521216.35247
21209542.000 7 417900.411 7 301569.22749 21209536.60249
22149601.805 6 -125401.404 6 -95970.36748 22149600.28948
24229370.711 3 -362033.606 3 -276563.99446 24229372.48446
22610476.695 6 -656547.109 6 -493472.91748 22610475.91048
I don't think it will process in OPUS.
It downloaded into TBC but the point doesn't seem to show up anywhere on the screen. A listing of the imported file shows the date as 8/2/1996.
If everything else (including length) is right, I think you can make OPUS process this by manually editing the year, month, and day to the correct values by global search and replace.
I was doing that for OPUS-S with the files created from the 4000sst until I discovered I could just change the week number in the batch file that runs Teqc and let the software do the hard work as it is converting from Trimble .dat to Rinex.
LR Day, I recently purchased some Trimble 4700's. What procedures do you use for the RTK with the units? Do you use survey controller 12.50? What kind of radios do you use, or do you use the internal radios? Thanks.
MISSOURIMULE, post: 364998, member: 9473 wrote: LR Day, I recently purchased some Trimble 4700's. What procedures do you use for the RTK with the units? Do you use survey controller 12.50? What kind of radios do you use, or do you use the internal radios? Thanks.
I use a TSC2 @ 12.46. I use the internal 4700 radios with a whip antenna hooked directly to the 4700. I use a Trimmark 35 watt base radio. I use a Zyhper Geodetic ant at the base and a MicroCentered for the rover. I made my own power wires and power with some sealed lead acid batteries (5Ah). I have the Lateesd TBC office software.
So just to confirm, are the 4700's still working as normal for RTK?
Ben Dayton, post: 373725, member: 447 wrote: So just to confirm, are the 4700's still working as normal for RTK?
yes, and as static if you run it through the fixweek program
