Sounds like a Jeff Lucas article!
Subdivision Plat executed in 1971.
Subdivider/Unlicensed Surveyor set his Goat Stakes* in 2002?ÿbecause pre-existing Lot owners asked
Critical info not in above discussion.?ÿ I was thinking he set pins before sales.?ÿ
There must have been wood stakes, t-posts or something to guide people at the time. How did they have any idea where their lot was when buying it?
There's no way an unlicensed person with no experience should be able to set the physical boundaries and use that information as part of the conveyance of title to land.?ÿ I mean the physical corners are what the average person goes by and understands in terms of defining their limits of ownership.?ÿ The controlling data on the plats is meant for us to be able to effectively layout the corners on the ground.
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There's no way an unlicensed person with no experience should be able to set the physical boundaries and use that information as part of the conveyance
Dave has pointed out the pins were set long after the plat and conveyances in this case.
If the owner/developer had set durable monuments and sold lots with representation that those monuments defined the boundaries, then yes he should be able.
I remember reading that one a while back. I didn't realize it was the same story. Thanks!
In addition, the court could still find these acts constituted a boundary by agreement. Or not, depends on particulars.
There is a similar subdivision nearby, a plat was signed and filed then the lots were sold. The surveyor never set any pins in the interior as far as anyone can find. The exterior was at best partially surveyed.
I was talked into going out there one time. I went around a vacant lot that a second surveyor (he had long moved away and retired) had monumented and found his stamped caps, I flagged them all and got out of there. I let the owners know that the pins of the other surveyor were flagged and that the road into the lot didn't conform to the plat.
Well,,,,,, a few months later I started to get nasty correspondence from an attorney about how I staked the access road wrong, he needed all my field notes,,,,,ect.
Seems everything in that awful subdivision was now my fault. I told the attorney that I didn't stake a road, he said the landowner found my lath for the road, the only lath I set outside the lot was a backsite lath along the county road at one of the lot corners, seems the landowner connected that one lath with one on his lot 1/4 mile away and was going to build a new road.
The thing about that subdivision is that it's a high dollar area, but everybody bought in cheap, of course they did, there was nothing done but some crappy platting to create it,,,,,,,,keeps costs down I guess.
That subdivision is on my do not go there list, if they ever wish to replat and fix the mess I might be interested, but they would have to beg really hard after the way they all acted the last time.
I've fixed some of the exterior because one of my clients abuts it, that I enjoyed doing, the fences were a mess, now they are all nice, new, straight and where they should be.
Believe it or not every lot was sold sight unseen, because of the location that is only accessible by private road to the best fly fishing in the world. Every lot owners I talked to said they had no idea where their lot was located. They just wanted a key.
Believe it or not every lot was sold sight unseen, because of the location that is only accessible by private road to the best fly fishing in the world. Every lot owners I talked to said they had no idea where their lot was located. They just wanted a key.
That helps explain a lot about how the situation came about.
So did the disputing parties then build on "their lots" although almost no one else did?
A question that doesn't seem to have been asked is in regards to timing of events. The developer is now 85 y.o.?ÿ At what time in the past did he set these monuments? Conceivably as far back as the 1950's. And did the state license surveyors at that time?
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Plat was done in 1971. Montana didn't have a subdivision and platting act at the time so the lots less than 20 acres were created without any review. Licensed Land Surveyors were required at the time. An Engineer could become licenced as a Land Surveyor at the time by just checking a box and paying a small additional fee.
I would say the data on the plat is better used to recover the monuments set by the platting surveyor and guide us to the locus of other evidence. It should never be used in a vacuum...
Oh hell if the guy set these things 40 years later then I'd call them garbage.?ÿ Plat wins, imo.
There are some replies above...Platted in 71, but developer set the pins something like 30 years later after he had no interest in the land...what is unknown was if he was recovering previous stakes (wooden or iron or whatever). Like all cases, the facts matter (and we dont have all of them).
I am aware of a very similar subdivision about 60 miles from here.?ÿ I know the surveyor who drew up the plat but did no surveying of any kind, not even the perimeter.?ÿ A perfect quarter section, 2640 by 2640 and square.?ÿ Something like a thousand lots of all configurations based on snake-like roads that never existed and for which no curve data of any kind is available.?ÿ The surveyor confirmed to me what he had done.?ÿ His plat dates to about 1960 as I recall.?ÿ Only a few lots were ever sold, to the best of my memory.?ÿ Something like Lot 483, Lot 712 and Lot 906.?ÿ I wouldn't go into that place for love or money, ever.?ÿ If the rattlesnakes didn't get me the copperheads would.......or the tarantulas.?ÿ Really big tarantulas.?ÿ When one skitters across the road in front of you the first thought is it is a mouse or rat.
