We've been through this before ....
Dave, when we do a retracement survey of an existing parcel of land we are required to put a "property description" of our parcel on our survey plat. However, I have always considered the original subdivision plat (or replat) as the documentation of the description of the newly-created parcels. To me, a metes-and-bounds description that is already perfectly described on the plat that creates the description (and new parcel) is merely redundant (not that redundancy is necessarily bad).
edit: okay, I do get that you are saying that a plat of 100 parcels wouldn't be worth writing 100 m&b descriptions on, but a plat of 5 or less would be helpful.
> “County Land Use official wants a metes and bounds LEGAL description of each replatted lot.”
>
> That’s ridiculous, ask the “official” to contact the County Attorney’s office for clarification of legal description requirements applicable to replats.
I think you are on to the heart of the problem. A lot of guys (like me) are arguing whether a m&b description should be being produced with a replat. But where I think the larger rub is; is when a non-expert is making that decision and telling the surveyor what to do.
It seems to me, like the "official" could be told that a metes-and-bounds could easily be rendered from the plat you provided, and if they can't get someone in there office that has the expertise to do it, you would be glad to write one for him at your usual fee... and say it with a smile. 🙂
Regional standards come to mind
Yes guys, I think we are seeing some of the differences between states and a variety of interpretation of how to accomplish things. At the end of the day the deed must contain a description that is unique and reproducible.
I come from back East where a M & B description was standard operating procedure. Here, we file a map and reference it for a description. I'm kinda partial to the later, but understand the former.
I was also kind of wondering what exactly a "county Land Use Official" entails. It sounds like an oxymoron, but I assume is would be along the lines of a zoning official. They don't plan anything, especially personal property rights and uses - they enforce regulations that are adopted by their bosses via the public. But I have encountered a few who feel empowered to dictate things they think they the have to right to dictate when they actually do not, as you point out.
Well, without the M & B, there is less to argue about. Who benefits by that? In a modern subdivision noboby should benefit, it should amount to the same thing. But attorneys are schooled on how it has played out in the past. Subdivision lots conveyed turn out not to be the size shown on the plat.
We've been through this before ....
Around here there are two metes and bounds:
1 the graphic display on paper called a drawing
2 the spelled out in detail version called a property description
Both contain all the same information.
Some cannot understand nor read any map or drawing even when it is google earth
Some cannot understand the terms used in the written description
Some demand it be a certain way and don't even know what we do for them
I make sure the requiring party sends an email or other to the client with a list of requirements or expectations before I start.
0.02
Metes And Bounds Vs Aliquot Description
An aliquot description seems so simple because it contains few words. That is deceptive because those few words provide a great deal of control. Probably the most important thing is that references control points far away and rather rigid rules for retracement. Those control points are monumented, marked and have indepedant ties.
Referencing a Lot Number on a filed plat gives almost none of the above. Only a few plat corners may be monumented. Typical monument requirements are new exterior corners, PCs and PTs on one side of a new road, assuming they are the South, an intersecting new road may have them on the East. It is not uncommon that no other lot corners are set, even if required, because the designing surveyor is long gone and not fully paid by the time lots with homes are being sold. It is not unusual to be surveying Lot 4 and no original pins or no pins at all on it, nor 2, 3, 5 & 6 to the side, nor on 11, 12 & 13 to the rear. A simple 4 point, 4 line metes and bounds is useless. That is why competent surveyors begin from a Point of Commencement, a monument old or new and lead you to the Point of Beginning. It might be from a concrete monument at the PC or PT of the 25' curve at the intersection of Roads "A" and "B" or from an original outbound set stone or pipe. Such a description does more than describe a lot, it tells you where to begin and how to proceed. Information not easily discerned from a plat reduced to a rediculous size, scanned from a mylar by people that don't understand how to deal with it's transparency and could care less, possibly not even reproducable to scale. Don't bother to ask to see an original they were old and dry, cracking and covered in dust, lost in a fire, flood and simply left behind in a move by people who do not care to work for a living. No matter how good they are now somewhere in the chain of custody they were there. Not to forget those white on blue prints originally glued to a hand scrivened deed page, simply falling out, taken by a lazy lawyer or surveyor or stolen to sell on ebay. Sometimes when they fell out they were slipped into the pocket inside the book covers, but there they made easier plunder.
The deed pages have however been held more sacrosanct.
How can one expect future surveyors to follow in footsteps that were never left?
Paul in PA
boundary is based on the found, undisturbed, original mon. ?
Does that mean that you rarely hold plat corners?
The correct description, as you've pointed out, is Lot *** of *** Plat, nothing more nothing less. Simple and straight forward. After all, isn't that one of the purpose of a plat to make the legal clear and concise and repeatable for future transactions?
