This RE is the one I posted about a week or so ago. He was at a wedding in Detroit when we first spoke.
http://beerleg.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=24282#p24301
He has called three times so far since getting back in LA. The second call he made he said "Well, all I see is 3 inches difference on two corners". I asked him if he looked at the line his crew had set almost 2.5 feet into the lot on the west. He told me that he was looking at an 8 1/2" x 11" print and I suggested he take a look at the PDF of the RS I sent him and call me again.
Today we talk and this is what I learned.
1. His crew started the survey about 1000 feet east of the lot on a different street and related to a different subdivision.
2. From those few points they calculated the lot position in the subdivision where the survey was done for my RS using the subdivision they started in and the ties on that subdivision to the subdivision the subject lot was in.
3. The man is partially retired so he is apparently signing off on surveys without supervising the work for some extra cash.
4. His survey experience is between nil and college classes, ok, lets just say no experience at all.
5. He did not know about filing a CR or an RS and was shocked to find out that one of the two records had to be filed for every boundary survey done.
He also said he was "in the middle and in the dark" about the survey conflict and suggested that the three of us, him, me and his party chief get together are sort it all out over coffee.
I declined and told him that as far as I was concerned it was sorted out. My survey is in the county in line for review. I also suggested that he go to the boards site and just read a few of the accusations under investigation posts and disciplinary action posts that are published on the site.
I also told him that since his crew had monumented an easement line with his tag that he has to file an RS of his survey and went on to say that my RS filing, even though it shows his tags, does not relieve him of his responsiblity of filing.
He thanked me for my candor and told me he would be calling me back. I let him know that he can call any time, but stressed the fact again that he needs to read the actions that the board takes against those that do not file and accentuated it with a "..they are quite aggressive in thier dealings with non compliance professionals".
He needs to stop surveying all together. He was grandfathered in.
Come to Arkansas, and help me clean this state!
🙂
He he he
only found a gimp of 10 feet, on another GOOD surveyor's survey! (failed to find the monument)
🙂
N
Nate
I am going to suggest to this RE that he stops surveying completely the next time he calls.
Nate
dammed engineers treating surveying like a minor sidelight.
what's the big deal, I can calculate a coordinate.
ME TOO DAVE
HERE IS ONE NOW
5000/10,000
I surveyed under 2 RCE's the first time I went to CA in early 1987. Neither one was really competent to be signing surveys, but they hired good people to keep them out of trouble.
When I came back in late '88 I was working under a PLS until I got my own in early '90.
😛
"5. He did not know about filing a CR or an RS and was shocked to find out that one of the two records had to be filed for every boundary survey done."
Paul, correct me if I'm wrong, but in California there can be a situation where a client owns a large tract of land that was legitimately surveyed 10 years ago. The lines were never marked and the land has become overgrown with brush and they have no idea where any of the corners are.
They ask you to come in and survey their property. You find ALL the corners of record and flag the lines. Your retracement does not reveal any material discrepancies from the record of survey you are retracing. Since there were no material descrepancies and you are not setting or re-setting any corners, there is no need to file either a Record of Survey or a Corner Record.
Now I know there could be much talk about constitutes a material discrepancy, but it is clear by the language that the Board understands that no surveyor will ever arrive at the same exact answer. They are leaving it up to common sense and past rulings.
I also know that you have mentioned in the past that you feel it is a good service to your client to always file one or the other. However I do think there are situations where it is not required by the Act. JRL
Gunny
> "5. He did not know about filing a CR or an RS and was shocked to find out that one of the two records had to be filed for every boundary survey done."
>
>
> Paul, correct me if I'm wrong, but in California there can be a situation where a client owns a large tract of land that was legitimately surveyed 10 years ago. The lines were never marked and the land has become overgrown with brush and they have no idea where any of the corners are.
>
> They ask you to come in and survey their property. You find ALL the corners of record and flag the lines. Your retracement does not reveal any material discrepancies from the record of survey you are retracing. Since there were no material descrepancies and you are not setting or re-setting any corners, there is no need to file either a Record of Survey or a Corner Record.
>
> Now I know there could be much talk about constitutes a material discrepancy, but it is clear by the language that the Board understands that no surveyor will ever arrive at the same exact answer. They are leaving it up to common sense and past rulings.
>
> I also know that you have mentioned in the past that you feel it is a good service to your client to always file one or the other. However I do think there are situations where it is not required by the Act. JRL
Those are few and far between surveys Jeremy. As far as this one survey and the RE, his knowledge about basic surveying and state laws was almost at a negative number.
Your scenario is just corner recovery and there would be no need to file, but I file any chance I get...everyone benefits from it, speci'lly sirveyours
Gunny
I agree. Just wanted to point out that there are situations where it is not required.
Another example would be the client that has the land surveyed and the corners set. The land is sold and 2 years later the new owner wants it fenced. They start calling around for the cheapest proposal to "run the lines". They never call the surveyor that did the original survey..?! We have people coming into the Surveyors office all the time asking questions about parcel maps and record of Surveys. I always suggest calling the surveyor who did the survey if they are still in business. Seems like that would be the first thought since their phone number is usually on the map.
JRL
gunman
My view is that when a surveyor makes a representation as to the location of a boundary(corners set or not) there is a requirement, in all but the rarest of circumstances, to FILE SOMETHING, corner record or record of survey. This view is arrived at via a review of the long thread on the subject on the old board and conversations with Ric Moore.
gunman
"My view is that when a surveyor makes a representation as to the location of a boundary(corners set or not) there is a requirement, in all but the rarest of circumstances, to FILE SOMETHING"
That may be the way they are leaning with their advice and it is probably good advice to follow in order to limit your liability with the board.
However, if this is their intent that a surveyor file a record of survey anytime they retrace a legitimate survey, they should revise the 2011 Act and eliminate Section 8765 (d) (Exemptions). To me that section is very clear and understandable. The only language left open for interpretation is "material discrepancy".
I agree that in most cases you will find discrepancies and missing corners and the discussion really is not relevant.
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The other area they need to clarify or revise in the 2011 Act is the construction staking/GPS machine control aspect on Public Works projects.
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Sorry to hijack Paul, little friendy discussion never hurt anything.
.04' anyone?
NOPE
I SAID FILE SOMETHING.... NOT A RECORD OF SURVEY EVERYTIME.... BUT A CORNER RECORD OR RECORD OF SURVEY....
