I know of two in the southeast who lost their licenses due to felony convictions and one in the midwest who lost his license for refusing to comply with a board disciplinary action.
We used to have a clause in surveying statutes involving moral turpitude but that term was hard to prove or define so it got dropped.
Similar here.
One of my university classmates got several years jail time for embezlling millions of dollars from our public health system.
Some how he managed to keep his licence 🙁
habitual would point to at least one or More DWI convictions.?ÿ That's what we had in Colorado and is likely similar in most states.
Being drunk is legal. Being drunk or drug impaired behind the wheel isn't.
Also, the direction this applies to is also maybe you're drunk while making a legal decision i.e. professional opinion like signing a legal document like a Survey plat, just my suspicion in this discussion.
If you're habitually intoxicated you're not legally fit to sign, not obligate the public safety to your potentially dangerous mistakes.
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My $0.02
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I'm aware of several in California that have either had their license revoked or voluntarily surrendered it.
All that and only 2 years and $1,000
Either surveyors have a lot more exposure than engineers to such actions, or engineers are a lot better professionals. While the second may be true, the first is certainly true IMHO. Those of us who deal with what I call "retail", meaning cold calls for private lot surveys, are far more likely to be reported for a number of reasons. Low budgets (lower budgets = higher risk), clients unhappy with results (no matter how well the work was done), multiple people can be offended by a single set monument, short term relationships, dealing with emotionally charged property (fight or flight instinct in regards to homestead), etc etc etc
In WA, if the crime doesn't directly relate to the profession, then it isn't supposed to be used as a basis for revocation or denial.
@dmyhill?ÿ
Engineers work in an extremely wide variety of specific areas which greatly reduces the odds of being viewed as a direct competitor who is taking needed income away from another engineer working the same small geographic area.?ÿ Surveyors are far more likely to be attempting to get the same job, in general.
A mechanical engineer would not normally be in local competition with an electrical engineer or agricultural engineer.?ÿ I believe the vast majority of complaints that lead to revocation of a license are submitted by their peers.?ÿ Sure, there are some submitted by disgruntled clients, but those would be in the minority when revocation is carried out by the review board.
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/business-finance-legal/what-would-you-do-355967/#post-355970
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I've submitted 7 major complaints resulting in 3 revocations. I also testified in 8 lawsuits resulting in several revocations but did not submit the complaint. My observation is that most complaints get resolved well before revocation. I also submitted a few fairly minor complaints but stopped doing that long ago - we all have minor violations - its not a perfect profession, but my whole story is about the few that work way outside the bar. As an aspiring surveyor in the 80's, I competed against a dishonest, incompetent blithering idiot, who did most of the work by far, ran two crews for 33 years, while those of us hard working and hard studying professionals literally ran out of work because the dishonest, incompetent blithering idiot did 90% of the work by charging 2 bits per job. in my small community the clients all knew well that they were hiring a dishonest, incompetent blithering idiot, but since he charged less, they chose him over the rest of us. He butchered my county for decades, and I can show you cases that are still hurting people today. Is it ok that most of the landowners in a community hire someone they know is a dishonest, incompetent blithering idiot because he charges less? I assure you that it is not ok. incompetent surveyors cause really big problems for innocent landowners, not just the ones who paid 2 bits, and it makes the profession of land surveying look to many like... well....like we are all a bunch of dishonest incompetent blithering idiots. they don't understand what we are talking about. they get frustrated when we try to explain to them what the problem is - the 2 bit dishonest piece of paper looks just fine to them. I have been actually BLAMED for screwing up boundaries that were actually fraudulent when I discovered them the thing I really resented was how the public views our profession - why does the public have a choice? should not the public only be able to choose competent surveyors? the harm this causes is INCREDIBLE. a typical botched survey causes YEARS of headaches and legal problems for landowners. I would argue that we CAN'T allow this to happen - we are the only group that can make a difference. I have been heckled plenty for advocating for raising the bar - I believe in C.E. and some formal education to enhance our great tradition of apprenticeship. the idiot I knew was plenty intelligent - he taught himself a lot about our profession and had decades of experience - but quite obviously those two attributes does nothing to show the public that we see this as a serious profession - (i have also told the same story many times of my own mentors failing me tremendously). How then, did an incompetent, blithering idiot get a surveyors license? I studied my butt off and still barely passed. thanks to all of the working surveyors in our country who fought to raise the bar - that man would not get a license today even with 35 years of experience and a lot of self taught book reading. When those in our profession do not work to raise the bar - it doesn't get raised, and the bar has been raised.
Here, here, Warren.?ÿ Sloppiness is one thing.?ÿ Not caring is quite another.?ÿ Those who don't care about doing the job correctly need to lose their license.
We had a fellow years ago who was unlicensed doing surveys.?ÿ Amazingly, his solutions were precisely where his clients thought their boundaries should be.?ÿ His survey might conform to fences and mow lines quite well, but the true property lines were somewhere else.?ÿ He didn't have a license to lose but the BOR convinced him sufficiently to get him to stop.
Stupid question...?ÿ
Why does everyone keep referring to these morons as Surveying without a License, and not just plainly calling it the crime of impersonation of a legal profession, which by almost all standards constitutes Fraud, and largely a punishable crime in most states as a felony, or high misdemeanor.
I feel by saying they're Surveying without A license it waters down the actual problem, makes it seem like anyone can do this as long as you don't get caught, and if you do, consequences are minimal at best..?ÿ?ÿ
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I guess I found something else besides a 3ft flame that burns my arse....
Larceny can be in the hearts of many on both sides of a surveying transaction. I have neighbors who always know someone who "can do it a lot cheaper than that!" Unfortunately, such statements also include electrical work, plumbing, septic, appliances and a whole host of things where you're a lot better off seeking experts.
I just tell them that I'm accustomed to paying full price plus 20% and that they should just go away.
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@mathteacher I would argue that the average consumer when choosing between proposals among a group of plumbers, lawyers, electricians, mechanics, or website designers, and in each group is one known, incompetent blithering idiot proposing to do the same job for 2 bits that the others are proposing for a professional fee, would instinctively shy away from the blithering idiot, and instinctively suspect that by paying 2 bits, they won't actually be saving money but buying bigger problems. Surveying, in stark contrast, is not treated that way. The average citizen looks at similar pieces of paper with similar looking numbers and lines, and a similar stamp, and believe in their hearts and minds that they are saving money by paying 2 bits when all the other jokers want to charge a professional fee FOR THE SAME THING. I have direct experience with this phenomenon. It hurts many other people than the landowner. A surveyor can't go anywhere in my county without encountering a fraudulent survey then having to spend a lot of hours explaining why it is fraudulent. this is harmful to both our profession and our society. we surveyors are the only ones that can raise the bar to protect the public.
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