None of those classes are crucial for boundary surveying
I disagree.?ÿ I don??t think someone should be overseeing the use of GNSS without knowing how it works.?ÿ Hopefully, the person in?ÿ responsible charge is teaching his employees what they need to know as well, but that is a discussion for another time.?ÿ I believe geodesy is also needed, especially when working in the USPLSS.?ÿ I believe all of the classes are very good to have, and in a bachelor's program, one is expected to have a well-rounded education.?ÿ Again, because something is less important does not mean it isn??t important.?ÿ All of the classes prepare a student for a career in surveying, which is not just boundary work.?ÿ Many surveyors gain very sizable incomes by doing topographic work, monitoring, photogrammetry, construction stakeout, GIS, etc. ?ÿSome of these will have a boundary aspect to the task, and some may not. ?ÿA 4-year degree teaches a range of subject matter.?ÿ
The only school I have seen that comes close to enough legal preparation is University of Wyoming, although I haven't done any extensive research in a few years, so I would be happy to be convinced otherwise.
Looking at this program it seems like a decent certificate program.?ÿ The actual class material matters.?ÿ I??ve taken 3 credit classes that are equivalent to 6 credits at other schools, so it is very hard to compare without taking a class there. ?ÿBut, just comparing credit hours, Wyoming??s certificate program has about 12 credit hours (about 4 average college classes) that cover boundary surveying: real property law, real property descriptions, surveying the evidence, survey boundary, and public land surveys.?ÿ I compared this to the University of Maine, and New Mexico State University (both online programs.)?ÿ NMSU has about 12 credits in boundary(B LAW, Legal Principles I, Legal Principles II, and PLSS), just from looking at their curriculum (they may teach boundary aspects in other classes, I do not know from the course titles.)?ÿ UMaine has about 12 credit hours of boundary and law as well.?ÿ Some of the boundary aspects aren??t devoted to one class; for instance, Practical Field Operations, which is a 3-credit class, has a large part focused on boundary determination. ?ÿBut after taking those classes into consideration, you have roughly 12 credits.?ÿ And you can take an additional 6 credits as electives of boundary classes and 6 or more additional credits of law classes if a student chooses to.?ÿ Personally, I took additional credit hours in boundary and law that were relevant to surveying and boundary.
A bachelor's degree generally has about 60 credits of general education classes (english, economics, communications, etc.) and 60 credits of classes specific to the major of study.?ÿ If you have 12 credits of boundary and law then you have 20% of the focus dedicated to boundary (or 10% total.)?ÿ Also, any degree will allow for electives, which is basically a way of students picking a subject to focus on.?ÿ I think about 12 credits of electives is typical.
As a professional land surveyor, I don??t know any boundary or legal aspect that wasn??t covered in enough depth to prepare me to start my surveying career.?ÿ When I went for my state-specific exam I knew exactly what laws and regulations I needed to look up, and what I was going to be expected to know.?ÿ The exam was not difficult, and although my studies at UMaine didn??t cover any state-specific knowledge in the state I took the exam, it prepared me by teaching me how the legal system works, how the courts work, the different types of laws, and how they apply at each level to surveying and boundary determination, what are common and important laws a surveyor will need to use and apply, how to apply common law to a boundary determination, how to read and interpret court cases and legal writing, how to read, write and understand legal descriptions, how to do legal research and write a legal report and analysis, statutes of limitations, being an expert witness and communicating in a courtroom, etc.?ÿ We also went over practical examples of surveys.?ÿ There are many more aspects I have left off, but I do think the subject of boundary surveying was covered well.?ÿ Preparing students to pursue educating themselves is important, especially in a field like surveying where laws are changing, our knowledge and understanding of the laws are changing, and where each state has its own state-specific examination.
About 5 years ago I looked through all the ABET surveying programs. Some had as few as two classes about boundaries.?ÿ My conclusion was that a non surveying degree coupled with a good mentor was a preferable route for new surveyors.?ÿ
You said Wyoming comes close??ÿ How many credit hours is reasonable??ÿ
I would say 15 credit hours or 18 credit hours would be ideal if I ran a survey program (not counting any law classes that are part of the general education requirement.)?ÿ
A good liberal arts education (which at most schools includes math and physics, ect...) provides a good background to build the specific understanding needed to be a successful professional.?ÿ
I know many people who pursued liberal arts degrees and I researched many myself, and the physics and math that most liberal arts degrees require are not adequate.?ÿ But, I would sooner hire someone with a liberal arts degree than with an engineering degree that wasn't focused on surveying.?ÿ I would still prefer someone with an ABET surveying degree from a good program.?ÿ
What do you think someone with a liberal arts degree learned that someone with an ABET surveying degree didn't learn??ÿ More English classes??ÿ more political science classes??ÿ More social sciences? These are good classes and have a lot of merits, but I would not prefer them over surveying classes.
I had worked under eight different licensees across three firms before going back to school, and their boundary law instruction/mentorship was...spotty at best. Going back to school and getting the fuller picture of boundary law, then linking it up with what my individual mentors had taught (and were continuing to teach) me, was probably one of the best decisions I made in my career. Even with only 3-4 semesters.
3 credit hours in college is equivalent to about 126 hours of study (assuming each credit hour is about 3 hours a week for 14-week class.)?ÿ That's a lot to make up for in the field.?ÿ And, the education in the field is far more practical and focused on the task at hand than the general education you get in college.?ÿ A combination of both is ideal.
