> JB, It is fine for surveyors to learn the basic rules of law regarding civil procedure and evidence. However, both those areas of law are specialties that any decent law firm would have covered by individuals who do nothing but that. It is not simple at all and not something a surveyor can be expected to be an expert in.
There's app for that 😉
Hold the phones Brian
> > Simultaneous conveyances or are there senior rights to consider?
>
> These have little to do with gathering evidence of an old fence line. That is part of your documentary evidence gathering process. A properly established boundary by agreement/acquiescence, in most jurisdictions, trumps a simultaneous conveyance and senior rights.
The question that Alan posed is a damn good one to start with. Regardless of the agree-team questions, we need to figure out where it was supposed to be first, then where it may have migrated to. You seem to have jumped to the conclusion that just because the fence is close to the distances, it must be the line; however, that would assume facts not in evidence. What if the tract is 1500' North to South and not 1400 and it is the junior tract and the fence is off line by 100'? What's that sound, gasping for air for not thinking about that one? Whether it's a foot or 100', the junior senior rights are important, and should be considered first.
What's that you say, I didn't think about the landowner rights? Fair enough. What about the fact that when you carefully map that puppy, it's got a 40' bow in it. Now, is the line a straight line between corners or does it follow every damn fence post?
Final question, what about the pipe 5' North and 3' South of the fence corners?
Fences can be just fences.
Hold the phones Brian
> Simultaneous conveyances or are there senior rights to consider?
>
> These have little to do with gathering evidence of an old fence line. That is part of your documentary evidence gathering process. A properly established boundary by agreement/acquiescence, in most jurisdictions, trumps a simultaneous conveyance and senior rights.
>
> The question that Alan posed is a damn good one to start with. Regardless of the agree-team questions, we need to figure out where it was supposed to be first, then where it may have migrated to. You seem to have jumped to the conclusion that just because the fence is close to the distances, it must be the line; however, that would assume facts not in evidence. What if the tract is 1500' North to South and not 1400 and it is the junior tract and the fence is off line by 100'? What's that sound, gasping for air for not thinking about that one? Whether it's a foot or 100', the junior senior rights are important, and should be considered first.
>
> What's that you say, I didn't think about the landowner rights? Fair enough. What about the fact that when you carefully map that puppy, it's got a 40' bow in it. Now, is the line a straight line between corners or does it follow every damn fence post?
>
> Final question, what about the pipe 5' North and 3' South of the fence corners?
>
> Fences can be just fences.
I agree with some of the things you pointed out - that stuff shouldn't be ignored. You have to look at all the evidence and the all the laws of boundary establishment and retracement. I do not jump to any conclusions until I find the facts. I have never asserted that "just because the fence is close to the distances, it must be the line". We can play "what if" games until the cows come home, but the rules and the laws are still going to remain in effect. We must find the boundary according to the best available evidence and apply the appropriate laws.
I've never been hired to find where the boundary line "should' have been, I am hired to find where it is now. There is a big difference.
Hold the phones Brian
> > Simultaneous conveyances or are there senior rights to consider?
> >
> > These have little to do with gathering evidence of an old fence line. That is part of your documentary evidence gathering process. A properly established boundary by agreement/acquiescence, in most jurisdictions, trumps a simultaneous conveyance and senior rights.
> >
> > The question that Alan posed is a damn good one to start with. Regardless of the agree-team questions, we need to figure out where it was supposed to be first, then where it may have migrated to. You seem to have jumped to the conclusion that just because the fence is close to the distances, it must be the line; however, that would assume facts not in evidence. What if the tract is 1500' North to South and not 1400 and it is the junior tract and the fence is off line by 100'? What's that sound, gasping for air for not thinking about that one? Whether it's a foot or 100', the junior senior rights are important, and should be considered first.
> >
> > What's that you say, I didn't think about the landowner rights? Fair enough. What about the fact that when you carefully map that puppy, it's got a 40' bow in it. Now, is the line a straight line between corners or does it follow every damn fence post?
> >
> > Final question, what about the pipe 5' North and 3' South of the fence corners?
> >
> > Fences can be just fences.
>
> I agree with some of the things you pointed out - that stuff shouldn't be ignored. You have to look at all the evidence and the all the laws of boundary establishment and retracement. I do not jump to any conclusions until I find the facts. I have never asserted that "just because the fence is close to the distances, it must be the line". We can play "what if" games until the cows come home, but the rules and the laws are still going to remain in effect. We must find the boundary according to the best available evidence and apply the appropriate laws.
>
> I've never been hired to find where the boundary line "should' have been, I am hired to find where it is now. There is a big difference.
Not necessarily. Your job, as a surveyor, is not only to find out where the lines are, but to show any and all conflicts you find during the survey. A title line in one location versus an occupation line is a conflict and should at the least be noted.
Kris
> A title line in one location versus an occupation line is a conflict and should at the least be noted.
Only IF there are "two seperate lines", which is what this discussion is all about - how to know when the "two lines" have become one, or if there has always been only one line.
