Thank you Ralph.
> you have a PLS that gets $26000/month to do office work???!!!
> that is a lot. can i apply with you? i have 30 years of experience & I am asking only $15,000/month.
> i will do 2x his output. no overtime fee. just provide the coffee!
>
> those rates are quite high. even salaries in the Middle East do not come close to that & those projects in the Middle East are getting the best people with the most experiences.
We are not in the middle east, we are in south Florida (thats in the United States) and if you could read correctly, you would have seen that the fee is with a multiplier. not our pay rates. Multiplier means you multiply your pay rate time 3 or 3.5 or 4, whatever your corporate rate is.
I've never had a problem with surveyors giving low quotes or high quotes.
But, one thing obvious about surveyors in general is that we(as a whole), have no realistic business concept.
Low bids are bad enough, but I've seen cases where a surveyor would actually(such as this), throw money away with a parting shot implying that the other surveyors are just crooks.
Someone P-O-L-E-E-Z-E tell me why a surveyor with $2000 per month overhead and a "sufficient", workload of $4000 per month would bid $4000 for a job when the next lowest bid is $12000.
I've seen this time and time again.
It's as if the particular surveyor is used to eating 70% fat hamburg and cannot or will not accept that a delmonica might taste good too.
It's as if the idea of paying uncle Sam 12-15% of this readily available, extra earning is too much to swallow and therefore is "off the table".
As a society, we need to BE MADE to understand the importance(truly . . . the importance), of money and if need be, we should include psychologists & psychiatrists in our continuing education to delve into what the ^%$^%^&%^$^)$^*%#&^% is wrong with our monetary thinking . . . as a whole.
“But, one thing obvious about surveyors in general is that we(as a whole), have no realistic business concept.”
Excellent point, of course there are always exceptions. I know of at least two surveyors in Florida who became millionaires. And, these surveyors were just that, surveyors, not engineers and surveyors, not affiliated with an engineering firm, just surveyors with a realistic business concept.
Have a great weekend! B-)
> This property hasn't been surveyed in over 100 years.
> in a part of the state where there aren't any surveyors, or many people for that matter.
Dave, The answer to your question is right there in your comments. Have you asked yourself why it hasn't been surveyed in over 100 years? Probably because the value of the land is less than the cost of a real survey. Big problem in this area. I've had many clients who were land rich, but money poor.
There aren't any surveyors (or people) in the area because..... there is no money to be made there.
We can talk about value, difficulty, our costs, etc, but the one big question you need to ask yourself and hopefully the client, is why they want the survey. 32.5K for 270 acres is the costs of doing business for a corporate client who plans on mining, timbering or developing the property. For the local private land owner that's a big ole chunk of change to run some fence line. Unless he's doing something that will recoup his expenses, he'll never see your value, even at half your quote.
I understand your frustration. I experienced the exact same thing for years. IMHO, You're just not going to wrangle that kind of money out of land owners as long as there are other surveyors out there hungrier than you. Let me know when you start getting those kinds of fees around here because I'll want to dust off my shingle.
now there lies your problem.
most of your competitors are single proprietors or maybe partnerships.
they don't have a large overhead expenses.
your 3.4 factor in itself going against a small overhead company
means your price will always be higher than the mom & pop survey company.
that 3.4 multiplier is only effective if your competitors are also
corporations that have same level of overhead as yours.
so in short your competitors are not bidding low. they are bidding based on
what it will cost them to finish the job. same principle as yours but
their overhead is quite lower than yours so you will definitely lose
in every bid that you submit against them.
but let me repeat this, their bid is not LOW. you & them are bidding in different levels of costings.
they will make a profit in their bid same as you will make a profit in your bid.
problem is the client does not care how many back office engineers you have for the project.
he is only interested that the work will be completed on time with the lowest bid.
and come on, a survey plan for a boundary survey once all the data are in can be completed by 1 guy (usually me) in less than 1 week tops!
We are not in the middle east, we are in south Florida (thats in the United States) and if you could read correctly,
i know you are in Florida which is in the United States right? or is it Cuba? and yes I could read correctly as long as your grammar is correct.
my reference to the Middles East means that salaries in the Middle East are the current norms. The US rates only applies in the US. The ME rates are now the international norms because companies from the US & UK are bidding it out over there. There are no more work in the US that requires international consultants.
your 3.4 is just a "standard" value. it can be 2, 2.5, 3, 3.4 or heck even 1.5 depending on how you budget your expenses.
so while you are bitching here about 3.4x the guy who outbid you is raking in the work.