In the post ‘Did the surveyor represent my best interest’, the email that the landowner received from the surveyor stated that the testimony of the adjoiner was the basis for his boundary decision for the line that was in question.
I have in the past received parole testimony in the field. I have had landowners show me corners. I would note it and describe the testimony in the field book and have the landowner sign the page.
I would be of the opinion that if you were accepting parole testimony to establish a property corner that a notarized affidavit must be acquired for the record.
I know that I would procure one in the thread that was posted. It would be part of the job and the associated documentation. I would prepare the affidavit and arrange for the notarization. Notaries do house calls nowadays so it is not any inconvenience to the parties. The notarization process may give cause to the landowners to present the facts under and oath instead of their biased opinion.
The question: If you are accepting parole testimony for a boundary decision..how are you going to document and validate?
"parol". (parol and parole have the same root in etymology, but parole is used in terms of letting prisoners go; and "parol" is related to oral testimony.)
I think you do it right. Having the witness sign the note is great value, even if you had trouble getting a notary. Another possibly is getting your own notary stamp and keeping it in the truck. Regardless, it's probably best to find someone else to sign it.
Parol or Oral Testimony
ok my bad..:-/
I have obtained parol evidence in much the same way several times in the past, Robert. And speaking from a California perspective, it is my understanding that since state statute authorizes licensed land surveyors to take oaths, a notary is not necessary by virtue of the land surveying license.
It would be interesting to know how other states handle that.
> I have obtained parol evidence in much the same way several times in the past, Robert. And speaking from a California perspective, it is my understanding that since state statute authorizes licensed land surveyors to take oaths, a notary is not necessary by virtue of the land surveying license.
>
> It would be interesting to know how other states handle that.
I have never encountered a situation where the surveyor's seal can validate PAROL testimony.
I do know that a surveyor's notes i.e. field book could be presented as evidence.
I do know that some surveyors stamp their field book on completion.
The COE would require me to stamp all books for their projects.
This is the section in California's Professional Land Surveyors' Act (Business and Professions Code) that refers to oaths:
8760.
Every licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer (licensed prior to January 1, 1982) may administer and certify oaths:
(a) When it becomes necessary to take testimony for the identification or establishment of old, lost or obliterated corners.
(b) When a corner or monument is found in a perishable condition, and it appears desirable that evidence concerning it be perpetuated.
(c) When the importance of the survey makes it desirable, to administer an oath to his assistants for the faithful performance of their duty.
A record of oaths shall be preserved as part of the field notes of the survey and a memorandum of them shall be made on the record of survey filed under this article.
I added the "(licensed prior to January 1, 1982)" as this section was written at a time when civil engineers had the authority to practice land surveying.
I've thought about using my phone to record parol evidence. Putting that into the record I don't know, reduce to an affidavit probably. At least I wouldn't forget exactly what was said and I can store the recording with my records.
Our statutes also say a county surveyor can take oaths but I've never really looked all that close into it.
Hey JBStahl, you out there?
Parol or Oral Testimony
Is there any format or minimum items required for an oath declaration? I've read that clause in the statutes but have not seen any examples of an oath being taken.
Thanks.
Parol or Oral Testimony
Not that I am aware of. The few times I did it was very similar to what Robert stated. I listened to the story, wrote it in the field book, asked them to read it, and if they confirmed what I wrote, had them sign the page.
> I have never encountered a situation where the surveyor's seal can validate PAROL testimony.
> I do know that a surveyor's notes i.e. field book could be presented as evidence.
>
The stamp, or any statement by the surveyor regarding the testimony or oath taken in no way validates the contents of what he was told. It is just like anything else you report in a survey: "This is what I found - or in this case, what I was told - and taken together with everything else I've found or have found out about relating to the question at hand, here are my conclusions..."
The testimony is just one more piece of evidence you are reporting. You then make decisions about its reliability and weight it accordingly in your decisionmaking, just like with any other bit of evidence you find.
Parol or Oral Testimony
The one time I used a statement the Attorney put it into the form of a Declaration signed under Penalty of Perjury.
The statement was in the witness's own words.
Parol or Oral Testimony
"I took a trip on a train and I thought about you." -Johnny Mercer
"Because your ass is as big as a caboose." -The immediately late Johnny Mercer
The question: If you are accepting parole testimony for a boundary decision..how are you going to document and validate?
This can be a tricky question depending on the state you work in and the authority you have as a surveyor in that state. In my work I'm focused on the PLSS system and reestablishing original corners thereof. Depending on the state you are working in you need to focus on what authority you have as a surveyor and taking testimony. In a state where there is very little legislation or guidance I offered this to my professional associates and cohorts of disaster:
Deposition is a testimony of a witness taken upon interrogatories, not in open court, but in pursuance of a commission to take testimony issued by a court, or under a general law or court rule on the subject, and reduced in writing and duly authenticated. It is a discovery device by which one party asks oral questions of the other party or of a witness for another party. (Such as a landowner knowing of a land monument or corner position and supporting a land surveyors decision to monument that position from his testimony) The person who is deposed is called the depondent. The deposition is conducted under oath outside of the courtroom, usually in a lawyer's office. The deposition is a written account (word for word) transcript taken of the witness, taken in writing, under oath or affirmation, before some judicial officer in answer to questions or interrogatories. Essentially the deposition is testimony to be read at the trial, if needed, as though the witness were present in court.
An affidavit is a written or printed declaration or statement of facts, made voluntarily, and confirmed by the oath or affirmation of the party making it, taken before a person having authority to administer such oath or affirmation.
Getting to the end here, I pursued on a few occasions an Affidavit of Testimony which included the following:
Statement pursuant to the authority under the applicable State Statute or regulation (your state will vary) etc.
State
County ss
I, Name of person, being first duly sworn, do depose and state the following:
The he/she has actually seen the stone or monument common to whatever sections, Township-XX North, Range XX West, ###P.M., and markings on said describe monument identifying it as the corner of (whatever sections).
If the original corner was not found then the person signing the affidavit should describe whatever actions were taken of a subsequent monument placed and by whom and if possible the year it was done.
Name of depondent
Subscribed and sworn to before me, a licensed surveyor, in and for the State of, this 00 day of month, Year.
Licensed Surveyor No. ####
Much of the info above was written over 30 years ago and have only used it a few times, but was accepted in court. As usual it depends on your state and your authority as a surveyor.
Pablo B-)
> The person who is deposed is called the depondent.
Deponent (only one "d").
sad thing is that most adjoiners are storytellers and not reliable. i love to hear the widow tell me how her husband built that fence 6" inside the property line.
the more accurate the description, the more unlikely the truth.
