Since those who could explain the surveys/resurveys that were involved in the Rivers v Lozeau Appeals Court Case in Florida, won't come out of the closet; then how about this:
Somebody, anybody post an example of subdividing a section in the PLSS where the east-west centerline was broken in bearing at the C 1/4 sec. cor. to show that it is not a line of constant bearing for the mile which would be in accordance with the new 2009 Survey Manual from BLM.
And it is a beautiful sunny day in Central California!
Keith
Don't ask, if ya doan wanna know!
I can post that.
Hare ye go:
Year, 1921. County surveyor, starts at S1/4 corner, takes his jacobs staff compass, goes to the N 1/4 corner. Runs true line all the way. Hacking, and chopping. Misses the N1/4 corner by 30' to the EAST. Notes it.
Starts at the W 1/4 corner, hacks his way to the east 1/4 corner, and misses it by 20 feet to the north.
Goes back to the intersection, and from the intersection point, goes 10' south, and 15' west, and sets a large pile of stones.
This is NOW the legal c1/4.
Fast foreward to 2010.
GPS is going strong, and Mr. Expert sirvayer ties into all 4 1/4 corners, and 3 section corners, and decides that the stone pile INTENDED to show the C1/4 is 5' east, and 6' south of the TRUE C1/4. The 2010 sirvayer is wrong.
The stone was set via correct procedure, with the standards of the time, and it IS the C1/4.
Viola! There is a KINK in the 1/4 section lines. And, it is LEGAL.
Smile. God loves us, Keith!
🙂
Nate
My next project over near Fort Bragg is the line between Sections 22 & 27. There are Surveys (circa 1960s & 1970s) in Sections 20, 29, 21, 22, 23 & 26. None of them were done by BLM or GLO which haven't touched the area since the 19th century. They all show a constant bearing on the east-west centerline but also they all close mathematically.
Obviously they are done on a plane and that would be the normal practice. So although the bearings are constant they are grid bearings (in fact they all are using state plane grid bearings for a BoB except for one which took the grid bearings and rotated them to true. This is based on highway control along Route 20). Therefore I would take it that the lines are great circles in effect.
besides
If you run from the west quarter to the CW1/16 C-C, then to the C1/4, then to the CE1/16, then to the east quarter and set them on the latitudinal arc then you report your bearings in terms of grid you will have a different bearing on each of the 4 segments making up the east-west centerline.
Why intersect the lines at all? If it is the intent that each 1/4 section receive it's proportionate share, wouldn't that be a question of area?
Don't ask, if ya doan wanna know!
YOu are absolutely correct Nate, but that is not the question.
Keith
Chrisw
Well the rules are what they are and area is the lowest on the scale of judgement factors.
But you knew that.
Keith
Dave
I have never done that, but I can assume you are absolutely right.
Keith
Chrisw
I seem to recall dividing by area was the instruction cited in a few of the letters and correspondence from Commissioners noted in Mr. White's History of the Rectangular system.
It could also be considered a more equitable solution, after all, they bought by the acre. The folks who bought 160 acres in a section with 670 acres were entitled to their equal proportion of the excess.
Maybe the best most equitable way to set the center is double proportionate measure giving weight to all lines.
Yea, that's it screw it all, use a new procedure sure to upset neighborhoods old and new...
Chrisw
I think the Court said in Thompson vs State that the land was not patented by area; it was patented by the results of a Survey. There was a large discrepancy between the NW1/4 (Thompson) and the NE1/4 (State) and the Court threw out the argument that the quarters should be the same size.
I'm working on a Survey of the NW1/4 (we surround it) but not based on the Appellate decision because the State later lost the second Superior Court trial and settled on a line which results in areas closer to equal. The funny thing is Thompson owned the SE1/4 too and the State owns the SW1/4 but Thompson didn't think his theories should apply down there (because he would lose land).
That section is the Survey twighlight zone.
And if anyone ever tells you that the iron clad rule is that you must always without fail use the original monument then this is an example of an original monument not in use due to the result of Court decisions. The contrary has been shown.
Chrisw
I am not aware of that direction, but it well may be the most equitable!
But, can you imagine the survey process that it would take to make all subdivisions in the section proportional to the total acreage?
Keith
Don't ask, if ya doan wanna know!
Excellent example, and I am sure it happened more than once in other parts of PLSSia!
Don't ask, if ya doan wanna know!
For those of us who just entered the room so to say, what was the question?
Keith
"But, can you imagine the survey process that it would take to make all subdivisions in the section proportional to the total acreage?"
That is truly mind boggling to consider, and there could be an infinite number of mathematical solutions!
Don
think of the upside...
more arguing for Surveyors! 😉
think of the upside...
I don't want to argue! I want to agree and drink beer!
Don't ask, if ya doan wanna know!
Let's say you find all 8 original corners, the question is how do you run the line from the west quarter to the east quarter, by latitudinal arc or a straight line (great circle)?
To add to the fun, you find a big aluminum monument at the center quarter which is dimpled 0.04' north of the east-west straight line. You resolve to move the monument, do you move it south 0.04' or do you go all the way and move it the couple of tenths south to the latitudinal arc?
think of the upside...
maybe we could work it into a game where if you lose a debating point you have to drink a beer. Then everyone would be trying to lose the debate for a change. 😉
think of the upside...
:good:
Definitions
> Therefore I would take it that the lines are great circles in effect.
N-S lines could be segments of great circles, but E-W lines would be segments of small circles unless they're at the equator.
