I have several GEB171 batteries that I use with a TCRA1102plus. One of them has started to show signs of failing (short charge life), and I'm interested in opening it up to assess the best recell strategy (i.e. hire it done or do it myself).
There's an obvious seam around one side of the brick, but it's not clear to me if it's glued (seems likely) or uses some sort of snap fastener (seems less likely). I figured I'd ask here before I bugger up the case trying to figure it out by brute force methods.
Anyone done this?
You might find an answer in the Recycling Passport for the GEB171. You'll need a log in to see the document. Before Leica required that info, I looked at a couple of these. Answer to what's under the "skin" of the product for proper recycling as required in the European Union. I think there are illustrations and/or photos.
http://www.leica-geosystems.com/en/page_catalog.htm?cid=6463
Batteries are listed under accessories. Possible this information might be on a CD supplied with the product, if one was.
> You might find an answer in the Recycling Passport for the GEB171. You'll need a log in to see the document. Before Leica required that info, I looked at a couple of these. Answer to what's under the "skin" of the product for proper recycling as required in the European Union. I think there are illustrations and/or photos.
The document shows a photo of the internal battery arrangement, but nothing about opening the case. It does mention that there's 20 grams of sealant compound in the assembly, which suggests that there might be a flexible sealant holding the case together.
I'll try a little pressure on the seam and see what I get.
Thanks!
P.S. I don't understand Leica's insistence in password-protecting mundane documents like user manuals and recycling info. Are they really afraid someone's going to obtain company secrets by reviewing these, as if a motivated industrial spy wouldn't be able to figure out a way to get this information some other way?
Reference to the sealant probably answers the question.
Here's another method that could be used to join the plastic shell components of a battery cassette.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_welding
No glue at all.
Most of us have probably encountered this when we buy items in a clear plastic display shell that can only be opened with something sharp.
Agree the recycle information is probably not worthy of high security. Obtain the item, dismantle and reverse engineer. I've read tech news reports on people who buy the latest consumer electronic gadget and actually tear it apart to see what's inside to report on an estimated factory cost.
There was some light glue around the edge of the case cover, but that was easily cracked by running a tapered blade around the perimeter:
The harder part was getting the silicone sealant to release the lid. It took quite a bit of firm but gentle prying and lifting to get the 10 gobs of it holding the lid on to let go:
Inside are 10 each 850mAh NiMH cells with spot-welded strap connections, a thermistor stuck in one of the intercell gaps, and the input/output circuitry and connectors:
A closeup of one of the cells:
I'll have to nose around to see about the cost of getting a replacement pack made. I know that some of the full-service recell outfits want anywhere from $145 to $295 to rebuild it, which seems kind of pricey.
Hi Jim
Have you ever considered trying to retro fit a 12v lithium ion battery pack from a cordless drill with a lemo connector ?
They are pretty cheap, easily available and come with all the benefits of lithium ion..... they hold their charge for months and recharge in a 10 to 20 minutes.
When I was still using ni-mh battery packs, I toyed with this idea, but gave up once my instruments were upgraded and lithium ion was the standard.
Just a random idea 🙂
>10 each 850mAh NiMH cells
Just so you don't get confused in looking at someone's catalog: It looks to me like the 850 mA is the recommended charge rate and the capacity is 8.5 Ah = 8500 mAh. Even a AA can have something like 2 or 2.5 amp hours.
> Just so you don't get confused in looking at someone's catalog: It looks to me like the 850 mA is the recommended charge rate and the capacity is 8.5 Ah = 8500 mAh. Even a AA can have something like 2 or 2.5 amp hours.
Yes, I did get confused. They're 8500mAh cells, as you noted.
Another interesting thing is that the capacity printed on the Leica case is 8Ah rather than 8.5Ah. I'm thinking they may have set up the cases for lower-capacity cells and just kept using the same case after slipstreaming the higher-capacity cells.
> Have you ever considered trying to retro fit a 12v lithium ion battery pack from a cordless drill with a lemo connector ?
Good idea, and something I'll look into. Thanks!
Go LiPo, they are light as they don't have the metal casing and we need everything to be light. Find three that fit, get a PCB and a charger and if needed a regulator. Many more cycles as well. http://www.batteryspace.com/1-2cratepolymerli-ioncellspacks.aspx
> Go LiPo, they are light as they don't have the metal casing and we need everything to be light. Find three that fit, get a PCB and a charger and if needed a regulator. Many more cycles as well.
LiPo is too scary for my comfort level. A few items from the Complete Guide to Lithium Polymer Batteries and LiPo Failure Reports:
> Use the Taps. Before you charge a new Lithium pack, check the voltage of each cell individually. Then do this after every tenth cycle there after. This is absolutely critical in that an unbalanced pack can explode while charging even if the correct cell count is chosen. If the cells are not within 0.1 volts of each other then charge each cell individually to 4.2 volts so that they are all equal. If after every discharge the pack is unbalanced you have a faulty cell and that pack must be replaced.
> NEVER charge the batteries unattended. This is the number one reason for houses and cars being burned to a crisp by lithium fires.
> Use a safe surface to charge your batteries on so that if they burst into flame no damage will occur. Vented fire safes, pyrex dishes with sand in the bottom, fireplaces, plant pots, are all good options.
> It can happen to you, do not think to yourself that “it won't happen to me” as soon as you do that it you'll be trying to rescue your kids from your burning house or car. I'm very serious about this.
Any one of the above would be enough to make me look askance at LiPo, but taken together there's simply no way I'm going to run that level of risk just to save a couple of pounds on a 30+ pound setup.
Suit yourself of course, but, almost all of those comments had to do with using a balance charger vs. a PCB that does charge the individual cells or high rates of charge. The chargers the company sells that I linked are built for PCB's and charge at a reasonable rate of 0.8 or 1.5 amp/hr. Regardless they are not a safe as NiMH, but, I had a major manufacturer's charger, charging NiCd's, burn my office, .. so it happens. After it happened, I was told (not officially) that there were many others of that charger that did the same thing and yet they continued to sell it.
To be on the safe side I am adding some charging cases and bags to what I am doing. http://tinyurl.com/lmpbh64 and http://tinyurl.com/mkwe3ye will be used in conjunction with my metal shelves and isolation. Do take into account that the R/C guys are literally shoving all of their energy in over a very short time, as they want to re-charge between heats. We would never charge our batteries or drain them the way that they do and their cells are made more aggressively for their purpose.
I think I have seen the battery you are re-celling and for all practical purposes it is the same size as the old black Geodimeter batteries as they both contained super D cells. I thought about re-celling the black batteries and even did two of them NiMh, but, made my large LiPo cases to replace them. Start of this thread https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=241500 Huge size and weight difference and the LiPo's contain more power (10amps usable).
You are correct on the better safe then sorry line of thinking, so, now that I know these bags and cases exist, I will be using them. It was your reticence that got me re-thinking the subject that led me to these cases, so, thanks! The pic is a black battery with a NiMh re-cell which are way smaller than the super D's and still way outweigh the case less LiPo's to the left.
Hi Jhframe,
I'm trying to do the same (open up one of my GEB171 batteries) to see if I can repack it myself. Is there a video or pictures you could share?