I have been selected to be a Beta tester for the new Javad LS & T2. I'm still waiting for the equipment to be shipped. Below is a report written by a BLM worker & it has got me anxious to try the Javad units out. I guess there were 208 Beta testers selected about a year ago. I called 1/2 dozen people on the list to see how they liked the units. Only 1/2 the people I called received the equipment but the ones that did receive them seemed to like them. BLM employee report is below.
The following is an evaluation and information on the new JAVAD RTK system which includes the Triumph LS (Rover), the TRIUMPH-2 (base receiver), and a 35 watt base radio (HPT435BT). I am not a geodesist or programmer so this evaluation is solely based on my personal experience as a long time/expert user of GPS. I have been testing the JAVAD setup described in this document for about 3 weeks and have been able to learn to use the RTK set with great success implementing it into my work flow. I will break the evaluation into cost benefits and performance benefits based on my testing experience.
Cost Benefits:
The cost for the setup is as follows: Triumph LS $13,990 HPT435BT(base radio) $2,759 Triumph 2 $4,990 TOTAL=$21,739 half the cost of other brand setups.
The Triumph LS has J-field (data collection software) built into the unit therefore there is no need for the extra cost of a data collector and collection software.
J-field is designed with abilities to where there is no need for a separate software package to process RTK vectors, OPUS accepts JAVAD raw data directly, JAVAD provides free software to convert the JAVAD raw data file to a rinex file for post processing in any GNSS processing software(negates cost of new processing software).
With the Galileo satellite constellation (Europe’s GPS satellites) being developed, the JAVAD company has designed their units ready to accept a free upgrade once Galileo becomes functional whereas other units would have to be replaced to take advantage of the new constellation. The JAVAD units also track the Chinese constellation(still in development).
One savings realized by any cable free RTK setup is the cost of new cables as they wear and/or break due to normal use, one more benefit to the JAVAD setup is that the base radio is connected to the T2 (TRIUMPH-2) through Bluetooth® eliminating the cable data connection normally used on a base setup.
Performance Benefits:
I am used to being way behind the technology curve so to me the technology being used in the Triumph LS is not only cutting edge but forward compatible/thinking with many upcoming technologies. The concepts and abilities I have experienced with the LS have been extremely impressive especially the willingness of the company to listen to suggestions from users. In my opinion the company designed the software to be very customizable and very flexible as far as many ways to do one thing so the individual user can become very comfortable with their own processes. The tech support is very helpful and reactive to whatever issue is brought to their attention. The company has a very self-supportive tech team, they are more than willing to communicate within themselves to solve the issue in the most efficient manner possible.
Performance Benefits The flexibility of the software’s features like codes (layers)/Tags and such would allow us (ES-BLM) to customize these to assist in the automated production of field notes. The export functions of J-field are also customizable, however they can’t be customized to export CMM files as of yet (I have this in to the company as a request). Currently I export a *.csv file for import into CMM. The export function can also directly export a *.dwg or *.dxf file and it can also export shape files. There is an ability to export vector data in NGS G-file format but as I mentioned above there is no need for RTK vector processing/ adjusting if a certain process is used (minimally described later). The import abilities are also customizable and I just export a *.csv file from CMM and import it into J-field.
The COGO package is very powerful and has lots and I mean lots of functions and tools. One big one for BLM cadastral is the fact that the comps and inversing can be done with true bearings and ground distances and other combinations as desired by the user. I have personally compared the results with CMM-adjstuf and they match exactly! Another function that I would use is the averaging function which will average multiple occupations of the same point. This average function actually combines the RTK vector data of multi obs and creates a point with the combined data which is separate from the original points and the statistics of the averaged point can be viewed/exported. Another issue we have all dealt with and I eluded to it above is we will set up a base station using an autonomous position (collecting raw data for later submission to OPUS or other processing) and start RTK’ing points from it creating vectors from an autonomous position. I usually export the vector data for later adjustment in processing software from my corrected position. However in J-field when the corrected base coordinates are obtained you can edit a point RTK’d from the autonomous base position and change the base coords to the corrected ones and J-field will use the vector data to shift the point to the corrected position. An option comes up to apply this change to all points surveyed from that base station.
One bit of technology that is of great benefit is the RTK Verification that JAVAD has implemented into the LS receiver. I am not a software engineer but I believe I understand the process enough to give a basic run-down of how I believe it works and how it is a benefit. First off the LS actually has 6 RTK engines all running at the same time where as far as I know other GPS units only have 1 engine. These 6 engines are all fixing their ambiguities with different satellite sets creating 6 separate RTK solutions. The settings allow a user to define how “tight” they want settings for the verification process, ie how many engines are required for the process and how many epochs. I have mine set to 3 (have been told this is extremely tight) engines and 120 epochs so an occupation would be as follows: Phase 1-start occupationall engines reset ambiguities, one engine fixes records epoch and resets, another engine fixes records epoch and resets, and so on until the software is confident that the solutions are verified within the user defined settings. Phase 2 the engines no longer reset and any epochs outside the confidence guard will be rejected(bad fixes) and the engines record the epochs until 120 are recorded. The verification process is much more complex than I described and is explained more thoroughly in the User Manual for the LS. The point is with this process the user walks away very confident of the results and therefore eliminating the need for reoccupation so many times. In the testing I have pushed the LS to its limits as far as multipath and it puts our current equipment to shame, it is still GPS so it has its limits. I personally have experienced many bad fixes with my current setup but with the JAVAD LS the RTK Verification quickly eliminates those bad fixes without user interaction. One reason for this is the fact that the LS has 864 satellite channels with 100 dedicated to dealing with inband interference whereas my current receiver for example has only 440 and none dedicated to in-band interference. I have issues with GLONASS at certain times of day and for example, ever experience having wide open sky and tons of satellites but no fix-try turning off the GLONASS satellites in this situation and odds are it will be insta-fixing in no time using only GPS satellites. The JAVAD equipment seems to deal with this issue better than my current set.
The JAVAD Triumph LS is also ready for Real Time Networks (RTN) in that it is WIFI capable so connecting to mobile hotspots for RTN/VRS corrections is very simple and reliable. The LS can also have a SIM card installed directly in the unit so it can connect to the cell network directly for RTN corrections. RTN is a very beneficial tool and should be utilized where and when possible.
There are many more bells and whistles that a user can use to streamline the process of collecting data but I believe I covered the main items that make this RTK system a very useful tool.
I will be clear that in no way am I affiliated with JAVAD company and I do/did not receive any sort of incentives for my evaluation of the RTK set. Again my opinion is solely based on my experience as an expert user of GPS equipment and in my opinion the JAVAD RTK system as described should be purchased ASAP and future purchases should consider the JAVAD company as a first resource for this type of technology.
— One last note is that I have been able to figure out the radio settings so that I can reliably/accurately run my current Rover off of the JAVAD T2 base setup while also running the LS on the same corrections. 2 rovers one base-we still can make use of the “legacy” units we still have!
Javad report from a BLM employee:
I love this unit. Now I can quickly and easily compute the "legal" center of the section on the fly in real time. Gone are the days of going back to the office and spending hours computing before I can reject a corner set by a county surveyor in 1952 for being 1.87' north of the "true' center.
Sorry...couldn't stop myself 😉
OK, I have several questions.
1.) What branch of the BLM are you with? What state, and what crew?
2.) How big of a SPREAD do you get with the Javad unit? I have the Legacy E units. I took it out and put the rover under a big pine tree, with spreading boughs, and shot the same point many times, over a 2 hr period. I eventually got a pile of coords, that were all within 1/2 a foot, but some were as much as 0.6' apart. This was my personal evaluation study, to find out what it was doing. There were also several outlyers, several feet away from the main clump of coords. This is one of my more important methods of evaluating a GPS system, and trying to break it!
3.) How are you able to keep using the Legacy E units, along with this? I have them.
4.) Is English your first language? If not, what is your fist language. (Your language construction suggests that English was not your first lan
If you don't mind, give us a short bio, so we know what kind of background, and range of experience you have.
I'm interested in upgrading. I put in a request about 1-1/2 yrs ago, to evaluate the Javad system. But, it never came in.
Have a good day.
Nate
Nate
It's cut and paste from a Javad ad
Evaluation of Javad RTK system for use by ES Cadastral Survey
> The following is an evaluation and information on the new JAVAD RTK system which includes the Triumph LS (Rover), the TRIUMPH-2 (base receiver), and a 35 watt base radio (HPT435BT). I am not a geodesist or programmer so this evaluation is solely based on my personal experience as a long time/expert user of GPS.
You know, one of the amazing things about Javad as an equipment manufacturer is what an incredible mess their website is. That, together with the incorrect presentation of results on RTK controller screens certainly raises questions about what exactly is offered for sale.
Posting cut-and-paste testimonials from the disorganized website is one way of trying to advertise, I suppose. I would have thought that just redesigning the website would be more effective, though.
That thumping noise
That 80s car would be wrecked in mere minutes.
[sarcasm]Fire up that RTK and get some numbers![/sarcasm]
Javad Ad from a (BLM employee?)
:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
I was one of the Beta testers that rensberger contacted. I do not think that he has any affiliation with JAVAD. I think that he is just a curious and hopeful Beta tester.
I let him know that I am enjoying the Beta test and appreciate the effort that JAVAD is making to get land surveyors feedback on their equipment.
The Best things about JAVAD are also potentially the Worst things, but I like the company model and hope it succeeds. What I mean is that much of the business model is geared to top quality and functionality for the lowest price. Ways that can be accomplished are not having dealers and a bunch of hired people for every differing aspect of the business. So the website is not so great, but do you hire an expert full time to redesign and keep it up, thereby raising cost of the product? Many similar choices to be made.
The best thing about Javad is his commitment to users and support of products. There are many who felt it unfair to have to repurchase GPS equipment due to changing technology/regulations. I don't think something like that is going to happen with the JAVAD equipment.
As to the "incorrect" display; I'm not sure that's true. I've followed the thread, and I agree the display could show a better number that represents the ALTA specification when using a single base. Could the display be showing the ALTA spec. if the unit is being used with RTN rather than single base? Is it useless if it's not showing per the ALTA spec.?
Not many companies have succeeded in being software and hardware designers, usually proven to be best to be one or the other. But from what I've experienced they are very receptive to adding and adjusting software based on user comments.
> As to the "incorrect" display; I'm not sure that's true. I've followed the thread, and I agree the display could show a better number that represents the ALTA specification when using a single base. Could the display be showing the ALTA spec. if the unit is being used with RTN rather than single base? Is it useless if it's not showing per the ALTA spec.?
I believe that Shawn said that the relative uncertainty of a distance between two points was an enhancement in support of determining whether ALTA/ACSM specs were being met. Considering that the standard error of a DISTANCE between two points is a worthless measure of the Relative Positional Precision between two points that is the test value for the ALTA/ACSM spec, I think that "useless" isn't too strong a word.
The next release will reportedly figure the relative positional accuracy of two inversed points rather than the relative accuracy of the distance. Hopefully in the future the relative accuracy of the distance will make a comeback along with relative direction and relative elevation accuracy. But for the purpose, the relative positional accuracy is the priority at the moment.
The complaint regarding the display of the "2?" vs. the "?" symbol representing 95% confidence that you raised is not as simple as you seemed to indicate and will remain as is. Clearly the 95% label should sufficient.
> The complaint regarding the display of the "2?" vs. the "?" symbol representing 95% confidence that you raised is not as simple as you seemed to indicate and will remain as is. Clearly the 95% label should sufficient.
Yes, 2.47?1 and 2.47?2 would have been more correct. ?1 and ?2 are definitely incorrect.
If one wanted to design the system for greater flexibility, the notation k?1 and k?2, witha value of k appropriate to the selected confidence level, would work.
or just 95%.
> You know, one of the amazing things about Javad as an equipment manufacturer is what an incredible mess their website is.
I disagree. The Javad site is remarkably free of external dependencies, javascript and heavy graphic loads; just 1 stylesheet, 2 backgrounds and 5 images. Compare this with the Trimble homepage, which loads 25 scripts, 9 stylesheets, 17 backgrounds, 32 images and 4 external dependencies (including doubleclick.net).
I run both Adblock and NoScript on my browser, and the Javad site doesn't require the intervention of prophylactic software to be safely and snappily usable.
:good:
Less is more for me, too. I rather like Javad's site.
James
Gavin,
I have heard similar from you before regarding Javad products. I was wondering, is there a brand that you feel has superior technology to Javad? My thoughts have been that Javad's products are at least equal with the best.
> or just 95%.
The feature that looked idiotic in the first place was labelling the semi-axes of a 95% confidence error ellipse "?1" and "?2" when ? is a standard variable name for standard deviation. In other words, the screen says "this is a standard error ellipse" and "this is a 95%-confidence error ellipse", which is 247% larger than a standard error ellipse.
Most least squares survey adjustment software allows the user to select the confidence level of the error ellipses computed. Star*Net does. It isn't any trick at all.
Obviously, if the point is to allow field checking of Relative Positional Precision, the relative error ellipses between points checked need to be at 95% confidence.
You seem to be of the mind that anything that disagrees with your sensibilities is idiotic.
http://www.eng.usf.edu/~tdavis/resume/confidence%20regions.pdf
As I mentioned in the earlier relevant thread to this topic:
It appears that documenting the 95% confidence error estimate with 2? is not always appropriate as the 95% confidence is not always twice the standard deviation (or 1?), which is actually only the case for 1D.
The attached pdf shows the required scalars on page 13 for 95% confidence determined from standard deviation. Also in this paper, there are several instances in which the ? is used for a 95% confidence (see pages 1-3).
Since the screen clearly displays "95% Conf. Ellipse", it seems rather intuitive. This software already gives more statistical information than any other field controller software of which I am aware.
> You seem to be of the mind that anything that disagrees with your sensibilities is idiotic.
>
>> http://www.eng.usf.edu/~tdavis/resume/confidence%20regions.pdf
Well, if you actually bother to read the link you posted, you'll find that sigma is in fact conventionally used to denote standard deviation and, in the case of an error ellipse would refer to the STANDARD ERROR ELLIPSE. That is why the use of sigma on the Javad screen looks idiotic, as if the person who developed the software hadn't a clue as to the distinction.
> The cost for the setup is as follows: Triumph LS $13,990 HPT435BT(base radio) $2,759 Triumph 2 $4,990 TOTAL=$21,739 half the cost of other brand setups.
$21739.00 is not half the cost of all other brand setups.