A few days ago I bought a forester's compass with staff adapter, but no staff. My experience with compasses heretofore has mostly been limited to handheld models, save for some time with a Brunton over 30 years ago, and we used a little tripod with that. I'm wondering how useful a staff is -- for example, how would one use it in rocky ground?
If I decide a staff is worthwhile, I'll probably make one. The Ben Meadows catalog has one for $194, but that's more than twice what I paid for the compass. I figure I can cobble together a reasonably functional equivalent from osme hardwood doweling and some kind of iron for the shoe.
Suggestions appreciated.
Long Handled Dandelion Weeder 🙂
> Long Handled Dandelion Weeder 🙂
Not sure if you were kidding or not, but I think you're onto something. There must be a bunch of garden tools that can be repurposed as a Jacob's staff.
> A few days ago I bought a forester's compass with staff adapter, but no staff. My experience with compasses heretofore has mostly been limited to handheld models, save for some time with a Brunton over 30 years ago, and we used a little tripod with that. I'm wondering how useful a staff is -- for example, how would one use it in rocky ground?
The jacob's staff that Warren-Knight sold for their Forester's Compass was in fact not well suited to work in rocky ground. You need to stab the staff at least three or four inches into the soil for good stability.
The foot on the W-K staff doesn't have a spike on it, but has a conically pointed metal shoe on the foot of the staff.
Check with Forestry Suppliers. I bought one several years ago for less than $50 seems like, but never used it. I suppose it's like the Indian's candy on The Outlaw Josie Wales, it's for lookin at, nor for eatin.
Collapsible Aluminum 8 Foot Jacob's Staff/Range Pole
I have made several variations of these over the years, though this is one of my favorites. Made with a collapsible/telescoping Garelick 8 foot 3 section aluminum pole, part #94108. And various prism pole adapters and a modified 1/4" thread bolt. Balanced and trued. 42" when collapsed and handy as can be.
To me, the only way for one guy to get good results with a forester type compass is to use a tripod. Just too many things to juggle when using a staff. Usually you want to be over or on a point, the bubble or bubbles need to be centered, the sights need to be aimed and finally the needle is read. It is much easier if two work at it... one to keep on the point and level while one aims at sights and reads the needle.
Obviously a Brunton is better suited for one man operation without a tripod.
The best compass results I have achieved have been w a Ushikata type compass/telescope combo on a tripod. Very accurate and having a circle that locks so that an actual angle can be turned.
good luck
Jiminy Christmas!
I don't think anyone would expect an inexperienced uncoordinated compass mishandler out there anyway. I don't know about the Brunton, but the Suunto is in half degree increments, if an experienced user can't achieve half degree accuracy on a hillside weather freehand or staff then they should not be out there pretending to use a compass on that environment. I have plumed my pole over markers on steep 90% slope hillsides, believe me, a tripod in that situation tends to be difficult. The operative key word here is experienced. If you haven't been there, then you simply can not imagine.
Jim, just make a range pole like the one I posted. Modify and customize as needed. Use adapters for interchanging if needed. Not sure what situations you'll be using it, daily or rarely, in any case there will be times you wish you had it. Rocky ground: if its steep freehand the compass and offset the gps. If its flat, well use a tripod or whatever.
Have a Jiminy Christmas!
Collapsible Aluminum 8 Foot Jacob's Staff/Range Pole
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That looks like a pretty good design for the foot of that jacob's staff. The top would require some mods to mount a ball joint on it, but it could be done.
> Jiminy Christmas!
> I don't think anyone would expect an inexperienced uncoordinated compass mishandler out there anyway. I don't know about the Brunton, but the Suunto is in half degree increments, if an experienced user can't achieve half degree accuracy on a hillside weather freehand or staff then they should not be out there pretending to use a compass on that environment. I have plumed my pole over markers on steep 90% slope hillsides, believe me, a tripod in that situation tends to be difficult. The operative key word here is experienced. If you haven't been there, then you simply can not imagine.
>
> Jim, just make a range pole like the one I posted. Modify and customize as needed. Use adapters for interchanging if needed. Not sure what situations you'll be using it, daily or rarely, in any case there will be times you wish you had it. Rocky ground: if its steep freehand the compass and offset the gps. If its flat, well use a tripod or whatever.
>
> Have a Jiminy Christmas!
I see you are a fan of the Suunto. I have a couple myself. They are okay for level ground, not so much in the mountains where sights tend to be inclined. I have always preferred a compass with sight vanes (or a scope) and permits the declination to be set. BTW.... while my last name is not Sikes, I have had plenty of experience with all types of compasses.
Merry Christmas to you.
Forgot to mention that I think the Suunto clinometer is far and away the best.
Pardon my misspelling.... I meant to say my name is not Sipe
dunno where Sikes came from??
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> They are okay for level ground, not so much in the mountains where sights tend to be inclined. I have always preferred a compass with sight vanes (or a scope) and permits the declination to be set.
>
my Suunto declination can be adjusted as with all "D" models. Never had a problem sighting on steep terrain. Like I said, the thing about experience.
as with my LTI TruPulse 360B
is someone out there still, manufacturing a compass where the declination could not be set?
Well not to be argumentative.... but I thought Jim was looking for advice about his forester style compass. I only offered up my experience with same. Glad you have a later generation Suunto with declination. I get your experience dig as well. I will give you that you clearly have more w a Suunto. My compass experience these days is as a collector and hobbyist since I have now retired.
Now on to opening presents w the grandkids.
> but I thought Jim was looking for advice about his forester style compass.
That, indeed, is the focus of the thread. And today on the way back to the office I stopped at my local hardware store and bought a 52" hoe handle for $14, planed down the top to fit the compass adapter, put a Helicoil insert in the bottom ($3 ?), and threaded one of the new-style pole tips ($3 ?) into it. For an investment of about 20 bucks and an hour of my time, I have a reasonable facsimile of a commercial Jacob's staff. I'll post a photo at some point just for fun.
P.S. A follow-up question: the adapter has a tapered socket that fits on the staff, but it also has a small hole in the side of the tapered portion. Are these adapters traditionally friction-fit, or do they rely on some kind of removable pin to prevent accidental detachment?
> P.S. A follow-up question: the adapter has a tapered socket that fits on the staff, but it also has a small hole in the side of the tapered portion. Are these adapters traditionally friction-fit, or do they rely on some kind of removable pin to prevent accidental detachment?
Does the compass have any other means of locking its orientation? If not, that may be where the lock screw goes.
Mine is friction fit. It's a 1 degree K+E Forester compass with a very nice Jacob's Staff made out of a quality hardwood.
In my work truck I have a Sipe-Sumner 1/2 degree compass (Warren-Knight). The Jacob's Staff is made of a cheap wood like a shovel handle. It has a spike foot like HammerDown's. The ball joint is held on with a screw. It also is supposed to have a locking screw which some Forester probably threw away long ago.
Frankly I like the smaller K+E better, it's easier to use and almost as accurate. I can make a straight line within a few feet in a half mile.
Looked at some of the ball joint mounts I have and found all but a couple have that hole. The hole in the Warren Knight cruiser adaptor is threaded none of the rest are. I am assuming it is for a small screw to hold it to the staff. One of my Jacob staffs has a small hole about a half inch from the top that would support that theory. The tapers on the dietzgens, K&Es and the Sipe Sumner are all the same standard K&E taper. The Warren Knight cruiser mount is quite a bit different.
I have one of the W-K Forester's Compasses seen bottom center. I used the hole to run a wood screw into the staff to affix the bottom part of the ball joint to it. In fact, I just leave the lower part on the staff for convenience. It hadn't occured to me that any other system was in use.
How are the other staff adaptors designed to be affixed to a staff? All just friction fit? I'd think that would mean one wouldn't carry the staff with compass mounted.
> I have one of the W-K Forester's Compasses seen bottom center. I used the hole to run a wood screw into the staff to affix the bottom part of the ball joint to it. In fact, I just leave the lower part on the staff for convenience. It hadn't occured to me that any other system was in use.
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> How are the other staff adaptors designed to be affixed to a staff? All just friction fit? I'd think that would mean one wouldn't carry the staff with compass mounted.
Just going by the staffs I have seen, only one showed evidence of a screw being used to retain the adaptor to the staff. But that is a small sample and I think the guys that surveyed w a compass often did what you have done. Why take a chance of the compass being dropped? For me and my occasional fiddling.... I just depend on the friction and careful handling.
A Jacob's Staff Is The Third Leg Of A Tripod
It is not a stand alone device. The point is to allow it to be accurately set in a marked place, not to hold it there.
The compass user has two legs, and then two hands to hold the Jacob's staff and manipulate the compass. That is as stable as necessary for typical compass surveying. A fair amount of compass surveying was done with a long Jacob's from astride a standing horse, 4 legged hopefully.
I saw a suitable start for a Jacob's staff yesterday at the hardware store. A replacement wedge handle for a hoe. The end was flared out, suitable for drilling and setting a compass retaining stud. The handle end could be tapered for a metallic point or not.
That the compass needle/plate floated free showed the staff was sufficiently plumb for the required purpose.
A tripod would imply a compass with level bubbles and much more complicated sights.
Are readers confusing a compass with a compass transit or a transit compass?
Paul in PA